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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 16:48:32 GMT
Hello everyone. The staff have noticed a concerning trend of members not staying on-topic, or simply dropping a line of conversation after they've been asked to. There have been several instances where one or more staff members have asked people several times to take something to Random Avril Discussion or a PM, but we were ignored. Sometimes we have to be 'bad cop', and unfortunately this is one of those times. When a staff member asks you to stay on topic or take it elsewhere, we mean stay on topic or take it elsewhere. It does NOT mean 'carry on talking about it until YOU decide the discussion is over'.From now on, any violations of these requests will receive a 5% warning. Further violations will receive an additional 5%, and then another 5%, and so on. You will eventually be banned if you persist for long enough. Thank you, The Staff Team Staff note 3/03/2017: Thank you guys for giving us your thoughts and opinions on this issue! If you want to talk about it more with us you're welcome to in the Questions and Suggestions board or in a PM to any staff member.
This warning system is temporary and will eventually be removed.
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sam
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Post by sam on Mar 2, 2017 18:25:29 GMT
This thread has been unlocked to create an easier dialogue between staff and members on this issue - if you have any concerns or problems about the off-topic rule, please make a post here or a new thread in its board (Questions&Suggestions) and we'll be more than happy to discuss.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 2, 2017 19:03:56 GMT
I'd like to add a clarification of what we mean when we say something is going off topic. One or 2 posts that veer slightly from the topic is not the end of the world. But when it begins to snowball into a full blown discussion such as what happened in SM thread with talking about Avril's failed marriages or in the 6th album thread talking about if Avril is a sell out or not, it's clear those should be taken elsewhere. Use your common sense. Don't read between the lines and pretend like because a staff member made a general comment that that somehow means we were the ones who "started it." Mods get a little bit of leeway when it comes to posts anyway, when we tell people they are going off topic. It's our job. Don't make snarky comments at us for doing our job. We could have just let BA die and you'd have no site at all. We all come here to get a break from the real world and have fun and discuss something we all love, we don't need extra drama here. The only thing we ask is that if we see a topic beginning to snowball into a fully blown off topic discussion and we ask you to take it to the appropriate thread, that you cooperate and do so without talking back to us. We aren't asking that much. If you feel something is unfair then PM us or bring it up here. Calling us out in threads to be sarcastic and rude and disrespectful will get you a warning and nothing else. If we let topics just run amok the forum would be a huge mess, which is what the mods are here for. Don't yell at us for making a simple request that only helps the forum run better.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on Mar 2, 2017 20:27:41 GMT
I took the comment in the AL6 thread to be a light-hearted joke and found it funny, but it's hard to tell how things are intended over text. But I've not been here much, only been checking in for a few moments at a time so if you've been getting a lot of comments and complaints then I understand. I've never really understood why going off topic is such a big deal because it always ends up reverting back but it's not a hard rule to abide by. I'm not arguing against the rule, it just felt strict with needing a thread for it and like members were being told off over something that wasn't a huge deal, but like I say I've not been here much and I guess things were going off topic all over the place and it's frustrating when you're trying to help and people are being disrespectful. I think also it's easy to think that you're making a quick comment in reply to something that's off topic and expecting it to end in a post or two, but I guess that's where staff come in to say it's gone too far off topic. I'm glad this thread is unlocked so people can discuss it here instead of all over the forum. Just reading this thread and seeing loads of comments from members and staff made BA look like the fun had been sucked out of here for a few days. I didn't want to bother posting anywhere but it feels more like a community again now.
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sliperslip
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Post by sliperslip on Mar 2, 2017 20:31:20 GMT
oops, then I will get ban in 5 days gotta put my shit together, since I'm always in a wrong thread ppl on the forum just need to understand than 99% of people here are nice people and if somebody say something to you that's not personal attack or having something against the person
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 2, 2017 22:48:39 GMT
I took the comment in the AL6 thread to be a light-hearted joke and found it funny, but it's hard to tell how things are intended over text. But I've not been here much, only been checking in for a few moments at a time so if you've been getting a lot of comments and complaints then I understand. I've never really understood why going off topic is such a big deal because it always ends up reverting back but it's not a hard rule to abide by. I'm not arguing against the rule, it just felt strict with needing a thread for it and like members were being told off over something that wasn't a huge deal, but like I say I've not been here much and I guess things were going off topic all over the place and it's frustrating when you're trying to help and people are being disrespectful. I think also it's easy to think that you're making a quick comment in reply to something that's off topic and expecting it to end in a post or two, but I guess that's where staff come in to say it's gone too far off topic. I'm glad this thread is unlocked so people can discuss it here instead of all over the forum. Just reading this thread and seeing loads of comments from members and staff made BA look like the fun had been sucked out of here for a few days. I didn't want to bother posting anywhere but it feels more like a community again now. It's not a big deal if people go off topic. It's become a big deal because we have had to ask members several times to stay on topic and they purposely ignore us and continue discussing it. Then when we decided we'd start giving out warnings if people didn't listen to us, we just got even more complaints and members bashing us publicly. It's gotten to a point where the staff collectively feel like we are being ignored and disrespected. 95% of the members cooperate with us and do what we ask. There's just a few certain problematic members that have been giving us trouble, that think for whatever reason the rule doesn't apply to them, and that they have to be problematic and not listen when we ask them to do a simple thing. They don't understand that staff have a certain authority here and that basically when we say a discussion is over, that it means it's over. We are tired of being disrespected and not being taken seriously and having to repeat ourselves over and over. Like I said, the large majority of you guys are great and respectful. There's just a few people who repeatedly give us pushback because they want to be an issue and can't accept someone else telling them what to do. For clarity, we are not forbidding anyone to discuss other topics or forbidding anyone from voicing concerns to staff. We only ask that you do so in the appropriate threads on the site. What more do you want from us?
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 2, 2017 23:23:08 GMT
We now have multiple incidents of people abusing the reporting button and accusing staff of going off topic for writing a staff note, which we are allowed to do. They are just trolling and baiting us now. Guess what, you aren't funny. We don't tolerate frivolous reports either.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Mar 3, 2017 0:18:47 GMT
I think it would be helpful for the staff to calm down a bit. I get you guys feel disrespected but it won't solve the problem if you react to passive-aggressive comments with the same passive-aggressive attitude. Again, I do get your point and I agree but I feel like the tone just gets worse.
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sam
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Post by sam on Mar 3, 2017 1:11:57 GMT
I agree - the situation has been very frustrating for us but as staff we must remember that we have to try and stay calm and collected. It's just very hard to do so when we get lots of passive - aggressive attitude for simply asking people to stay on topic. I think if this site drama continues, we may even eventually see a big divide between the members and the site's staff, and I really, really, don't want that. The other staff can tell you we've tried really, really hard to be a transparent and fair staff team since 2015; from whether that's increasing communication, creating member polls or keeping members informed over site changes we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the old staff and I would really like this drama to stop - it's not nice, and it creates a negative atmosphere for both staff and members alike. Please - if you ever have an issue with whatever we do you are always welcome to post about it in the questions and suggestions board and we are happy to respond and improve based upon feedback; it's what the board is there for Thank you.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 3, 2017 2:16:13 GMT
It should also be noted that we did try the nice approach many many times but that didn't get us anywhere. We gave people multiple chances and "safety nets" and they still ignored us. That's why we had to make drastic changes by bringing in a warning system, etc. because otherwise we were basically just being ignored and people were taking advantage of our leniency. We were quite nice about the whole thing to start with and gave everyone several chances to do what we asked. They chose not to. We're not just going to continue being nice about it if no one is responsive to it.
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katy
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Post by katy on Mar 3, 2017 6:42:01 GMT
Also don't see the issue with off topic posting, especially in the massive threads like the AL6 discussion, it's always gonna stray then come back on topic, I don't see an issue with that and I don't think many members are bothered by it. This isn't exactly a big forum and friendly discussion should be encouraged not killed by being told they're in the wrong thread and threatening bans, we all know nobody bothers to move it to another thread 99% of the time so it just ends the discussion and that's unnecessary imo. I'd say people ignore the warnings 1. Because they're bored of having their discussion ruined and 2. I don't think many members actually care when people go off topic in big threads like that.
I've certainly been of the opinion that the forums been a bit 'over moderated' this last week or so but that's just my thoughts. There was a massive problem with staff superiority on the last forum, please don't do the same here.
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sam
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Post by sam on Mar 3, 2017 7:52:25 GMT
Also don't see the issue with off topic posting, especially in the massive threads like the AL6 discussion, it's always gonna stray then come back on topic, I don't see an issue with that and I don't think many members are bothered by it. This isn't exactly a big forum and friendly discussion should be encouraged not killed by being told they're in the wrong thread and threatening bans, we all know nobody bothers to move it to another thread 99% of the time so it just ends the discussion and that's unnecessary imo. I'd say people ignore the warnings 1. Because they're bored of having their discussion ruined and 2. I don't think many members actually care when people go off topic in big threads like that. I've certainly been of the opinion that the forums been a bit 'over moderated' this last week or so but that's just my thoughts. There was a massive problem with staff superiority on the last forum, please don't do the same here. As we've stated, a single off topic post or two is fine - when it turns into a discussion that's not relevant to the thread is when it becomes a big deal and we ask it to be moved.
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sam
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Post by sam on Mar 3, 2017 8:03:15 GMT
Also don't see the issue with off topic posting, especially in the massive threads like the AL6 discussion, it's always gonna stray then come back on topic, I don't see an issue with that and I don't think many members are bothered by it. This isn't exactly a big forum and friendly discussion should be encouraged not killed by being told they're in the wrong thread and threatening bans, we all know nobody bothers to move it to another thread 99% of the time so it just ends the discussion and that's unnecessary imo. I'd say people ignore the warnings 1. Because they're bored of having their discussion ruined and 2. I don't think many members actually care when people go off topic in big threads like that. I've certainly been of the opinion that the forums been a bit 'over moderated' this last week or so but that's just my thoughts. There was a massive problem with staff superiority on the last forum, please don't do the same here. As we've stated, a single off topic post or two is fine - when it turns into a discussion that's not relevant to the thread is when it becomes a big deal and we ask it to be moved. To add to this (Tapatalk won't let me edit) sure, threads like AL6 are huge and can cover many topics; that's fine. But it still needs to be moderated. We've always done it this way on here when it has come to off topic discussion - when members start to outright ignore staff asking members to move their discussion to another area of the forum is where it becomes an issue.
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katy
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Post by katy on Mar 3, 2017 8:23:49 GMT
If you guys have an issue with it that's fine, but you can't blame members for getting frustrated when their discussions are being ended by moderators constantly when nobody except you guys seems to be at all annoyed by off topic posting. "Moving" the discussion never happens and effectively ends the discussion, everybody knows that. A thread about AL6 may bring up a convo about love songs which might lead to ten posts about her relationships, I don't see that as a problem, something new then happens with the album and we're back to music again.
I think the attitude of staff has been worse than members from what I've seen, it's cracking down on something that isn't really an issue. Like I said, the staff ruined the old forum, let's not make the same situation here cos I think we all agree everyones done a really good job with this so far.
At the end of the day people ignore staff because they don't agree with you - so this thread is probably a good idea to get an idea of how the standard member feels about it and possibly change the approach to fit member feeling.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 8:45:06 GMT
I don't have time right now to individually address everyone's posts, but I'll just say that there was a reason why I initially locked this announcement. Quite predictably, members don't see it from our point of view, they take it far too personally, and we end up going around in circles. There's an expression that goes "least said soonest mended" that I think applies here.
It is NOT about off-topic posts in general. That is a misunderstanding. It's about members not taking us seriously when they're asked multiple times to take something elsewhere or move on. We try to be a fair, transparent moderation team, but at the end of the day it's our prerogative to guide the forum in a certain direction. We're really not asking a lot from you guys.
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