⋆niki⋆
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i've seen your best side, you got to see my worst; it's not the first time but this one really hurts
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Post by ⋆niki⋆ on Apr 5, 2017 6:43:05 GMT
Devil's advocate: Bringing it back to Goodbye Lullaby, where's the entry point for new fans if WTH/Smile aren't on the radio? I don't think those songs are cheap/meaningless if they help bring in new fans/remind old fans that Avril still exists. Especially if they're like WTH/Smile which are uniquely Avril. HTNGU is a different story because it was the 8 billionth "YOLO/live while we're young" pop song to hit the market that year. I love HTNGU better than WTH/Smile because it has a kind of acoustic vibe I like and that is what I miss from GL's single sogs
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 5, 2017 6:59:51 GMT
Devil's advocate: Bringing it back to Goodbye Lullaby, where's the entry point for new fans if WTH/Smile aren't on the radio? I don't think those songs are cheap/meaningless if they help bring in new fans/remind old fans that Avril still exists. Especially if they're like WTH/Smile which are uniquely Avril. HTNGU is a different story because it was the 8 billionth "YOLO/live while we're young" pop song to hit the market that year. I love HTNGU better than WTH/Smile because it has a kind of acoustic vibe I like and that is what I miss from GL's single sogs Yeah I kinda like the song - was just saying it's not the most original idea
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Apr 5, 2017 8:42:07 GMT
Devil's advocate: Bringing it back to Goodbye Lullaby, where's the entry point for new fans if WTH/Smile aren't on the radio? I don't think those songs are cheap/meaningless if they help bring in new fans/remind old fans that Avril still exists. Especially if they're like WTH/Smile which are uniquely Avril. HTNGU is a different story because it was the 8 billionth "YOLO/live while we're young" pop song to hit the market that year. Was that issue so important to shoehorn those songs and delay the album almost a year? I'd rather she went with the concept she really wanted and they could've worked from there. The two first singles were the opposite of what the rest of the album was, and that was a stupid thing to do, because when people saw WTH/Smile, they thought it was a "TBDT pt. 2", only watered-down in all aspects; some fans that were on the fence after a disappointing TBDT to them, they didn't even bother to check the rest of album, because WTH was like a final nail in the coffin. I would agree that WTH/Smile were kind of "Avrilish", kind of a continuation from TBDT (MF princess, bratty), but since she was "suggested" to make those songs I don't know if I'd call them "uniquely Avril". I would also agree that HTNGU was generic and unoriginal, but I liked it more than WTH; RnR was also unoriginal and didn't bring anything really new to the table, it looked forced as heck. I don't know about you, but at this point I think Avril and her team should work on doing the things she wants to make musically/artistically, and then plan marketing and promotion strategies around that; doing it the other way around is what happened last two albums/eras and what made them underwhelming to say the least, especially AL that was a mess since the beginning until the end. Hopefully they'll do things better this time around
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 5, 2017 9:11:46 GMT
Devil's advocate: Bringing it back to Goodbye Lullaby, where's the entry point for new fans if WTH/Smile aren't on the radio? I don't think those songs are cheap/meaningless if they help bring in new fans/remind old fans that Avril still exists. Especially if they're like WTH/Smile which are uniquely Avril. HTNGU is a different story because it was the 8 billionth "YOLO/live while we're young" pop song to hit the market that year. Was that issue so important to shoehorn those songs and delay the album almost a year? I'd rather she went with the concept she really wanted and they could've worked from there. The two first singles were the opposite of what the rest of the album was, and that was a stupid thing to do, because when people saw WTH/Smile, they thought it was a "TBDT pt. 2", only watered-down in all aspects; some fans that were on the fence after a disappointing TBDT to them, they didn't even bother to check the rest of album, because WTH was like a final nail in the coffin. I would agree that WTH/Smile were kind of "Avrilish", kind of a continuation from TBDT (MF princess, bratty), but since she was "suggested" to make those songs I don't know if I'd call them "uniquely Avril". I would also agree that HTNGU was generic and unoriginal, but I liked it more than WTH; RnR was also unoriginal and didn't bring anything really new to the table, it looked forced as heck. I don't know about you, but at this point I think Avril and her team should work on doing the things she wants to make musically/artistically, and then plan marketing and promotion strategies around that; doing it the other way around is what happened last two albums/eras and what made them underwhelming to say the least, especially AL that was a mess since the beginning until the end. Hopefully they'll do things better this time around My internet connection is out randomly so I'll try responding to this on my phone and hopefully add more stuff later. I've only become a fan recently so I don't know to what extent the inclusion of the 2 songs delayed GL. To be fair, I don't know what 2 songs would have been put in their place if she never made them but looking at the final track list I don't think the other songs are that radio-friendly or marketable. It kind of sounds cold and corporate of me to say it like that but I think Avril wants her albums to sell well and for her music to be heard by as many people as possible too. Again, I'd need to know more about the production process to know if including them outweighed any potential delays . I say they're uniquely Avril because I can't imagine anyone else singing those songs. Like I said earlier in the thread, I heard those 2 songs for the first time a few months ago and was like "yep, this is Avril all right." I also don't think that those songs being "forced" on her takes away their authenticity as being real Avril songs. She looked at what the label asked for and made her own songs under those specifications. The only way I would have a problem with this is if the whole album was made under this type of restriction but that doesn't seem to be the case. And I agree, RnR is...yeah... Edit: I should also add that I'm mostly talking about/defending Smile. Even though I like the song I don't have a strong opinion on WTH - just lumping it in with Smile because they're both forced songs
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BogoGog24
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I'm off again in my world...
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 5, 2017 12:10:12 GMT
If they wanted radio friendly singles, they could have gone with WYWH. It at least matched the ballad style of the album. I remember Avril was excited when it was released as a single because it was the first single that represented the album properly. And even though I don't think it ended up charting super well, it actually did chart higher than Smile, and I remember lots of non-fans loving the song and singing along with the hook. If released as the initial single, it could have probably done just as good as WTH did.
There's nothing wrong with them wanting to release songs that are suited for radio. But the first priority should be that they make sense with the rest of the album. As Jack mentioned, for those who may have even liked WTH and Smile, the rest of the album was totally different and that may have actually just turned them away. Or for those who didn't like those songs, they may have thought the entire album was like that.
Other than WYWH and ILY, yes it's true there aren't many radio friendly songs on GL. However I think Not Enough or maaaaybe Everybody Hurts could have worked as singles. And as mentioned WYWH probably would have been the ideal lead single.
The only reason they wanted her to do WTH and Smile is because they figured since Girlfriend was so popular that that was the formula she should stick to. But weak remakes of past hits is never going to work. And they obviously didn't care about how those songs sounded with the rest of the album or cared if any of it made sense. They just wanted her to recreate more bratty pop songs because they thought that's what would be successful. Neither did nearly as well as GF did. After lots of promo, WTH peaked just outside the top 10, though did get certified platinum. Smile flopped completely. I think it barely charted on the Hot 100. And they didn't give it much promo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 15:24:10 GMT
I don't think Smile or WTH were ever meant to be TBDT2.0. If it was, they would have stuck with the pop/punk type of sound and more sing-talking. IMO they went into the studio with fresh ears. Neither of those songs even sound like anything that was put out at the time in mainstream. I feel like they were Avril's take on a modern dance/pop song and she succeeded in making it her own. But I also agree that it didn't fit the rest of the record at all and it didn't really work in her favor. Albeit it was more successful than anything that was on AL
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niccolo
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Post by niccolo on Apr 7, 2017 8:26:03 GMT
These opinions, though all interesting and insightful, should all be post lined with the fact that they are all alleged and assumption-based. Other than her dismissive initial introduction of WTH, we don't know any of these things for sure!
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Neil
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MOTM April '17
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Post by Neil on Apr 7, 2017 8:33:47 GMT
These opinions, though all interesting and insightful, should all be post lined with the fact that they are all alleged and assumption-based. Other than her dismissive initial introduction of WTH, we don't know any of these things for sure! Yep, a lot of this is definitely based on speculation. The basis of my post comes from interviews and stuff I read here
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fih
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Post by fih on May 11, 2017 19:39:07 GMT
I do question the amount of interference on GL when the songs she "didn't want on the album" are all she chose to play on tour. That's my only thoughts on it really. As long as I like the songs I'm not overly concerned where they came from. That's really something that I always wonder, if she is "forced" to make certain songs and release them as singles, why she doesn't sing live on tour the songs she really wanted in the album then? I really thought a lot about it during The Black Star Tour and then during The Avril Lavigne Tour she sang WTH and Smile again.. I know that people close to her told her already to sing some other songs and cut some songs from the set list as well, but she says that she sings what she thinks the fans wants to listen and is "afraid" of disappointing them/us. So the thing she did before TALT here in South America asking what we wanted to listen was really cool. She should do it more, actually for a bigger part of the set list But it's a bit out of the whole subject here.. about the delay, for what we know GL should've been out in 2009 and then cause of the "fights" with the label it came out in 2011
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al00001
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Post by al00001 on Nov 27, 2018 22:21:47 GMT
I have been looking for her blog post about the rant iver rca. But can't find it. Was that the post that she shared with BA? Or on her site? "Radio's very rhythmic and urban and dance today. I think they wanted me to do something more like that, but that's not what my vision was for this album". "The biggest challenge and only challenge of this album was my record company," says Lavigne. "I found myself in a situation on my fourth record with a bunch of people at the label who I didn't know, and they're coming in on my project and saying, 'Here's what we think you need to do for your record,' and giving me their vision. And radio's so rhythmic/dance-driven right now, and that's not where I was going with this record. So I had to fight and say no, but… I ultimately made the record I wanted to." she said she made the album she wanted end of story. so it appears its Avril not the label
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goodbye
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Post by goodbye on Dec 15, 2018 15:55:16 GMT
I think the deal is that before Adele became famous with ballads many record lables didn't wanted to release ballad albums. Colbie had the same issue with Gypsy Heart but she ended up liking the new sound they "forced" her. Rihanna had the same with Anti I guess.
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