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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 4:18:27 GMT
It's an old interview, but it's interesting to see how optimistic she was for her "Avril Lavigne" Era and working for LA Reid again. It's almost kinda sad considering how the last era went. I'm really hoping for the best for the 6th era. I'm hoping she doesn't end up going through this crap again.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 8:49:28 GMT
She had so much high hopes switching to EPIC records with LA Reid. Yet, they let her down so bad. All that re-inspiration she had was wasted on an only average 5th Album. Sad
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 25, 2015 14:27:53 GMT
I was literally just thinking last night about how much promo Epic actually gave her for WYWH, many spots such as Rachel Ray, GMA, and big appearances like the Macy's parade. Then suddenly everything changed. I think the marketing department changed and that was part of the reason why AL was delayed. Once again I suspect new people came in in the middle of the process, didn't understand what she was going for, and they made her conform to what they thought she should do. So sad and irritating. I wish labels would just butt out and allow artists to do their thing and maybe the label just has minimal involvement. They are business people and know nothing about music or art. They just look at what's popular and say "you need to do songs just like that."
It sounds to me like Avril may be doing a Xmas album before 6th album. That could possibly be her way out of the Epic contract, depending on how many albums she signed for. We may see a couple throwaway albums like Xmas and Greatest Hits before album 6. I won't be surprised if album 6 gets done on a different label.
I feel bad for Avril that she was let down so badly. However I don't think LA had much to do with it, but rather the marketing people and other business people at Epic. I remember she was excited to have him at her big worldwide concert (2vLive) so there don't seem to be any hard feelings between them.
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 25, 2015 14:30:33 GMT
Also it sucks in general how much crap she has gone through over the last several years- divorce from Deryck, RCA/GL drama, Epic drama, and now Lyme disease. She is well overdue for some good things now!
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Apr 25, 2015 14:51:34 GMT
She said she feels re-inspired and also said in different interviews that she felt back 17 when she met LA Reid again. I dont think it's right to put all the blame on Avril. Her "re-inspired" songs made it on the album: HTNGU, BS, SoS, 17. Epic even let her put a song like HK on the album. Also about the promo: During WYWH Epic did a lot more promo but also Avril herself was much more open; WTH.tv + giving free copies of GL to paparazzi + lots of paparazzi pics when she was with Brody + photoshoots + bigger interviews. During the AL-era she behaved much different, she 'sold' her lovestory with Chad to create buzz about her album but that's it. I'm pretty sure Epic had a promo-plan for AL and they did promo during HTNGU + RnR. But of course the best marketing/promo-plan means nothing if Avril refuses to do anything (just a guess from me). So, maybe Epic just saved the money and did no promo because it was obvious that Avril herself didnt want to support the promo. Working together with LA Reid may have re-inspired her but it's not Epics fault that Avril came up with bad songs like HTNGU and SoS...
I'm not saying that it's all Avrils fault and I know very well that Epic + Avrils management didnt do their best - but I just wanted to make you re-think that it's always only Epics fault.
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Post by jenda358 on Apr 25, 2015 15:05:48 GMT
Also it sucks in general how much crap she has gone through over the last several years- divorce from Deryck, RCA/GL drama, Epic drama, and now Lyme disease. She is well overdue for some good things now! Exactly. I just hope Avril's gonna be healthy and I hope she won't have to go through another divorce.
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 25, 2015 17:59:51 GMT
We don't know what went on behind the scenes of the making of this album. It really doesn't seem to me at all that it was Avril's idea to do songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS. 17 and HK were the only "fun" songs that really seemed like they were her idea. There was that whole drama that went on with Martin Johnson. I don't think Avril would really be that dumb to try to make an album with songs like 17 and HK together with songs like LMG, GYWYL, BG, FF, and HH. We don't know anything for sure, but something tells me her original plan was an album full of songs like the tripod songs and ballads like Falling Fast and Hush Hush. Then Epic decided she needed radio friendly pop songs, which is where the "fun" songs came from. Perhaps she thought they would be satisfied with the summer songs or 17, maybe even HK, but then they wanted HTNGU and RNR. Yes, Avril was involved with the writing of those songs. It doesn't mean that Epic still isn't partially responsible. For all we know, Avril wrote much better "fun" songs for radio, I mean 17 is a much better song and more meaningful, yet Epic did not think it was good enough to be a single. Epic will only release the songs they feel like. For all we know, Avril was instructed very specifically of what they were looking for, or Martin took over the process and made the songs how Epic wanted them, full of dumb and meaningless lyrics and fake pop beats. We don't know. The only people who know exactly what went down are Avril and Epic. I suspect there was a lot more that went down that we don't know about. Something very clearly happened with Martin. My guess is that Avril was not happy with the way he produced those songs and wanted him to do them over, but Martin refused unless he was paid more money, which Epic clearly didn't/doesn't have because they are a small label. And voila, we get stuck with poorly produced pop tunes.
Also, we have no way of knowing what sort of promo plan Epic had lined up for Avril. Once they saw that the first 2 singles brought meh results, they probably just figured they were better off pouring their resources into other artists like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony. I really doubt Avril is that stupid that she would refuse to go out and promote her record. She absolutely did every opportunity that came her way, all the festivals, the opening gig for Backstreet Boys, the award shows, the Google Hangouts, etc. The only reason there was no promo is because Epic did not provide it for her. There is not a major label artist in this industry that would openly refuse a promotional plan from their label to promote something they consider very close to them and have worked hard on for 1-2 years. Come on, I mean, we all know Avril is not much into the social media thing or that sometimes she gets bored in interviews, but give her some credit. She's been at this for over a decade and knows by now how the game is played. Clearly what happened is the marketing team changed after WYWH, they saw how the first 2 singles performed and saw that Avril's popularity has declined, and decided their limited resources would be put to better use in some of their more current acts like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony, both of whom have done well with their current projects. Avril simply needs to move to a label that has more money and more resources. Big Machine seems to allow their artists creative freedom but they also have large resources. They are the biggest independent label in the world. I wish somehow Avril could go there.
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Apr 25, 2015 18:59:23 GMT
We don't know what went on behind the scenes of the making of this album. It really doesn't seem to me at all that it was Avril's idea to do songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS. 17 and HK were the only "fun" songs that really seemed like they were her idea. There was that whole drama that went on with Martin Johnson. I don't think Avril would really be that dumb to try to make an album with songs like 17 and HK together with songs like LMG, GYWYL, BG, FF, and HH. We don't know anything for sure, but something tells me her original plan was an album full of songs like the tripod songs and ballads like Falling Fast and Hush Hush. Then Epic decided she needed radio friendly pop songs, which is where the "fun" songs came from. Perhaps she thought they would be satisfied with the summer songs or 17, maybe even HK, but then they wanted HTNGU and RNR. Yes, Avril was involved with the writing of those songs. It doesn't mean that Epic still isn't partially responsible. For all we know, Avril wrote much better "fun" songs for radio, I mean 17 is a much better song and more meaningful, yet Epic did not think it was good enough to be a single. Epic will only release the songs they feel like. For all we know, Avril was instructed very specifically of what they were looking for, or Martin took over the process and made the songs how Epic wanted them, full of dumb and meaningless lyrics and fake pop beats. We don't know. The only people who know exactly what went down are Avril and Epic. I suspect there was a lot more that went down that we don't know about. Something very clearly happened with Martin. My guess is that Avril was not happy with the way he produced those songs and wanted him to do them over, but Martin refused unless he was paid more money, which Epic clearly didn't/doesn't have because they are a small label. And voila, we get stuck with poorly produced pop tunes. Also, we have no way of knowing what sort of promo plan Epic had lined up for Avril. Once they saw that the first 2 singles brought meh results, they probably just figured they were better off pouring their resources into other artists like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony. I really doubt Avril is that stupid that she would refuse to go out and promote her record. She absolutely did every opportunity that came her way, all the festivals, the opening gig for Backstreet Boys, the award shows, the Google Hangouts, etc. The only reason there was no promo is because Epic did not provide it for her. There is not a major label artist in this industry that would openly refuse a promotional plan from their label to promote something they consider very close to them and have worked hard on for 1-2 years. Come on, I mean, we all know Avril is not much into the social media thing or that sometimes she gets bored in interviews, but give her some credit. She's been at this for over a decade and knows by now how the game is played. Clearly what happened is the marketing team changed after WYWH, they saw how the first 2 singles performed and saw that Avril's popularity has declined, and decided their limited resources would be put to better use in some of their more current acts like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony, both of whom have done well with their current projects. Avril simply needs to move to a label that has more money and more resources. Big Machine seems to allow their artists creative freedom but they also have large resources. They are the biggest independent label in the world. I wish somehow Avril could go there. Yeah, there might have been a lot of things we know nothing about. I just wanted to add that even though Avril probably didn't want to have songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS on her album, I don't think she wanted to make only the more serious tripod-type of songs. I remember Avril mentioning in a few interviews from the late GL era that she wanted her next album to be a combination of the serious GL-type of songs and the more upbeat songs. And that basically what really happened with AL.
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Apr 25, 2015 19:00:05 GMT
We don't know what went on behind the scenes of the making of this album. It really doesn't seem to me at all that it was Avril's idea to do songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS. 17 and HK were the only "fun" songs that really seemed like they were her idea. There was that whole drama that went on with Martin Johnson. I don't think Avril would really be that dumb to try to make an album with songs like 17 and HK together with songs like LMG, GYWYL, BG, FF, and HH. We don't know anything for sure, but something tells me her original plan was an album full of songs like the tripod songs and ballads like Falling Fast and Hush Hush. Then Epic decided she needed radio friendly pop songs, which is where the "fun" songs came from. Perhaps she thought they would be satisfied with the summer songs or 17, maybe even HK, but then they wanted HTNGU and RNR. Yes, Avril was involved with the writing of those songs. It doesn't mean that Epic still isn't partially responsible. For all we know, Avril wrote much better "fun" songs for radio, I mean 17 is a much better song and more meaningful, yet Epic did not think it was good enough to be a single. Epic will only release the songs they feel like. For all we know, Avril was instructed very specifically of what they were looking for, or Martin took over the process and made the songs how Epic wanted them, full of dumb and meaningless lyrics and fake pop beats. We don't know. The only people who know exactly what went down are Avril and Epic. I suspect there was a lot more that went down that we don't know about. Something very clearly happened with Martin. My guess is that Avril was not happy with the way he produced those songs and wanted him to do them over, but Martin refused unless he was paid more money, which Epic clearly didn't/doesn't have because they are a small label. And voila, we get stuck with poorly produced pop tunes. Yeah, there might have been a lot of things we know nothing about. I just wanted to add that even though Avril probably didn't want to have songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS on her album, I don't think she wanted to make only the more serious tripod-type of songs. I remember Avril mentioning in a few interviews from the late GL era that she wanted her next album to be a combination of the serious GL-type of songs and the more upbeat songs. And that's basically what really happened with AL.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 20:24:20 GMT
We don't know what went on behind the scenes of the making of this album. It really doesn't seem to me at all that it was Avril's idea to do songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS. 17 and HK were the only "fun" songs that really seemed like they were her idea. There was that whole drama that went on with Martin Johnson. I don't think Avril would really be that dumb to try to make an album with songs like 17 and HK together with songs like LMG, GYWYL, BG, FF, and HH. We don't know anything for sure, but something tells me her original plan was an album full of songs like the tripod songs and ballads like Falling Fast and Hush Hush. Then Epic decided she needed radio friendly pop songs, which is where the "fun" songs came from. Perhaps she thought they would be satisfied with the summer songs or 17, maybe even HK, but then they wanted HTNGU and RNR. Yes, Avril was involved with the writing of those songs. It doesn't mean that Epic still isn't partially responsible. For all we know, Avril wrote much better "fun" songs for radio, I mean 17 is a much better song and more meaningful, yet Epic did not think it was good enough to be a single. Epic will only release the songs they feel like. For all we know, Avril was instructed very specifically of what they were looking for, or Martin took over the process and made the songs how Epic wanted them, full of dumb and meaningless lyrics and fake pop beats. We don't know. The only people who know exactly what went down are Avril and Epic. I suspect there was a lot more that went down that we don't know about. Something very clearly happened with Martin. My guess is that Avril was not happy with the way he produced those songs and wanted him to do them over, but Martin refused unless he was paid more money, which Epic clearly didn't/doesn't have because they are a small label. And voila, we get stuck with poorly produced pop tunes.
I think this is what went down with Martin and Avril (burning bridges and all that). It seems about right. (We'll probably never no exactly what happened though). Remember, the fifth album occurred producing problems right away, initially, Avril started work on her fifth album with the producing team, The Runners. They worked together for a good few months between November 2011 - March 2012, they actually had made a full album together that was fully complete by March 2012. (Check old tweets). Why this Album with The Runners was scrapped... who knows? But Avril never mentioned working with The Runners again nor did The Runners mention Avril again. >Then Avril began to work with Chad and David for about 5 months, then tweeted having "Finished the album" (with Chad & David) and that "I'm away to relax before my next artistical journey begins..." (This is when Avril went to Paris). >Then a few months later, Avril was back in the studio last couple of months of 2012/beginning of 2013 (Epic definitely wanted more pop stuff) cause then Martin Johnson & Jacob Kasher were brought in. I truly believe once Avril began working with David and Chad she was going for a more mature sounding album (Remember Album artwork is shot months before the album is complete - and the artwork doesn't fit the majority of songs on her album, it was definetley gonna be an album of Sophisticated indie rock songs) then the Avril's initial concept was ruined with Martin Johson/Jkash - HK, BS, SOS, HTNGU, RNR, etc. There are so many mysteries surrounding the last era. It's also really sad that we know Avril has made a ton of songs that will probably never see the light of day (the ones with Alex Da Kid, Skylar Grey, The Runners etc.) I have a feeling these songs would have been really well produced.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Apr 25, 2015 20:54:43 GMT
We don't know what went on behind the scenes of the making of this album. It really doesn't seem to me at all that it was Avril's idea to do songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS. 17 and HK were the only "fun" songs that really seemed like they were her idea. There was that whole drama that went on with Martin Johnson. I don't think Avril would really be that dumb to try to make an album with songs like 17 and HK together with songs like LMG, GYWYL, BG, FF, and HH. We don't know anything for sure, but something tells me her original plan was an album full of songs like the tripod songs and ballads like Falling Fast and Hush Hush. Then Epic decided she needed radio friendly pop songs, which is where the "fun" songs came from. Perhaps she thought they would be satisfied with the summer songs or 17, maybe even HK, but then they wanted HTNGU and RNR. Yes, Avril was involved with the writing of those songs. It doesn't mean that Epic still isn't partially responsible. For all we know, Avril wrote much better "fun" songs for radio, I mean 17 is a much better song and more meaningful, yet Epic did not think it was good enough to be a single. Epic will only release the songs they feel like. For all we know, Avril was instructed very specifically of what they were looking for, or Martin took over the process and made the songs how Epic wanted them, full of dumb and meaningless lyrics and fake pop beats. We don't know. The only people who know exactly what went down are Avril and Epic. I suspect there was a lot more that went down that we don't know about. Something very clearly happened with Martin. My guess is that Avril was not happy with the way he produced those songs and wanted him to do them over, but Martin refused unless he was paid more money, which Epic clearly didn't/doesn't have because they are a small label. And voila, we get stuck with poorly produced pop tunes. Also, we have no way of knowing what sort of promo plan Epic had lined up for Avril. Once they saw that the first 2 singles brought meh results, they probably just figured they were better off pouring their resources into other artists like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony. I really doubt Avril is that stupid that she would refuse to go out and promote her record. She absolutely did every opportunity that came her way, all the festivals, the opening gig for Backstreet Boys, the award shows, the Google Hangouts, etc. The only reason there was no promo is because Epic did not provide it for her. There is not a major label artist in this industry that would openly refuse a promotional plan from their label to promote something they consider very close to them and have worked hard on for 1-2 years. Come on, I mean, we all know Avril is not much into the social media thing or that sometimes she gets bored in interviews, but give her some credit. She's been at this for over a decade and knows by now how the game is played. Clearly what happened is the marketing team changed after WYWH, they saw how the first 2 singles performed and saw that Avril's popularity has declined, and decided their limited resources would be put to better use in some of their more current acts like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony, both of whom have done well with their current projects. Avril simply needs to move to a label that has more money and more resources. Big Machine seems to allow their artists creative freedom but they also have large resources. They are the biggest independent label in the world. I wish somehow Avril could go there. I will try to organise my post a bit, cause you wrote so much About the pop-songs: I dont think it was Avrils intention to do serious tripod stuff only. She always loves fun songs and even mentioned that she felt re-inspired and young again - and she also said she wanted to find a balance of fun-songs and serious-songs. But that's not the point. What I wanted to say was: When Epic told her to do pop-songs, why did she have to come up with stupid songs like HTNUP? I mean, look at Katy Perry songs; they are pure pop but still enjoyable and most of them have a message or a great kind of humor (Last Friday night is so funny, Firework is inspiring, ET has good lyrics etc.). Nobody forced Avril to sing about getting drunk, partying all day and behaving like a teenager. And I highly doubt that Epic wanted Avril to do "dumb and meaningless" songs. But we already discussed this problem many times: Avril doesnt seem to understand that pop-songs can have a meaning, too. btw - I think 17 is a great song, it's just the bad production that ruins it. About the Martin/Avril conflict: We have no idea what was going on. I seriously doubt that it was because Avril wasnt satisfied with the production but Epic didnt want to pay Martin to re-produce them. Songs like Push and WTH have a bad production, too - and they have nothing to do with Martin. Avril just isnt that passionate about music anymore, that's why I think she often doesnt care enough about details like background vocals and production anymore. Whatever happened between Avril and Martin didnt affect the single choices, at least it seems like that. So maybe it was more a personal problem between them. But I agree that Epic made poor single-choices by releasing HTNGU and RnR instead of songs like 17 or tripod-songs. About promo: As I said, I agree that Epic didnt do their best with the promo. But it makes no sense to organise promo when the artist/Avril herself doesnt want to do enough. Well, Google-hangout etc. are nice but too less. Avril has to understand that without interacting on Social Media (sorry Avril, re-tweeing fan-art is not enough...) she wont get more fans and her left fans will leave her sooner or later. She doesnt have to show all her private life but she could at least give us a better view into her career-life (touring, recording, concerts, etc. - like she did with WTH.tv). I'm not the only one who saw that she seemed bored of her own album during the AL-era. She didnt even talk about RnR and her other songs, only HK/HTNGU/Bad girl. She didnt even mention her other songs like Hush Hush and Falling fast once... She could do a lot more to safe her career but she doesnt want to and I understand that Epic doesnt want to throw the money away for an artist that doesnt seem to care that much about her own career. I agree, that Avril should search for another label that fits better to her vision of her career, because Epic and Avril want different things and that gets more and more obvious. Sorry for this long post
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Apr 25, 2015 20:58:28 GMT
All artists make and write music that actually gets fully produced; except it doesn't all get published or released because there isn't enough room on one album. All artists have music that isn't released and never will be.
I know that in Avril's case it is different because she deliberately went back into the studio to create new songs (whether it be on her own terms or someone else's dictation). But I was just pointing out that it's kind of sad to think that all of our favorite artists have amazing songs that we'll never get to hear :(
But in Avril's particular case, I wish that she would have been able to release everything she wanted to when she originally wanted to. To think, if Avril had released everything she wanted to in the way that she wanted to way back in the RCA days, Avril would probably be on Album 8 or 9 by now. All of the time wasted by going back into the studio for newer material really set her back.
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Post by Dillon on Apr 25, 2015 21:26:04 GMT
It's not really fair to say that AL had bad single choices, is it? The singles of an album are supposed to reflect the album. But AL is described as 'all over the place' right? This means that any song chosen as a single would not have accurately reflected the album.
Singles are supposed to do two things - to reflect the album for what it is, and to get airplay. It's fair to say any song from AL would not have accurately defined the entire album, or even a majority of it, if chosen as a single. And as for airplay, we can't sit here and say that the non-singles would have gotten more attention or airplay than the singles that were chosen because pop culture is hit and miss. And I think we all know this. Songs like HTNGU and RNR were released as singles because they are the most pop and would supposedly get better airplay than the less pop songs. Epic wanted these pop songs as singles in order to get lots of airplay and draw in sales, but yet the AL singles weren't heavily successful. The music industry is a guessing game.
But about HTNGU, why does everyone seem to turn up their noses and scoff? In an interview, Avril said that everyone was onboard with making HTNGU the lead single. She said that everyone had a fun time making the song; she said that L.A. Reid liked it and that everyone pretty much agreed that it would be great as the first single. Why does everyone think it was such a bad single choice? So what if it's about getting drunk?
Yes it is nice and appropriate for Avril to mature and for her music to improve with her, but she shouldn't lose sight of who she is. Avril doesn't have to put on a fake routine for the media or fans. I think she proved this with HK. If Avril is the girl who loves Hello Kitty and never wants to grow up, then so be it. I think Avril can turn a new leaf and create a more mature image, but she can still do that while being the same Avril she always has been.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 25, 2015 21:52:29 GMT
We don't know what went on behind the scenes of the making of this album. It really doesn't seem to me at all that it was Avril's idea to do songs like HTNGU, RNR, BS, or SOS. 17 and HK were the only "fun" songs that really seemed like they were her idea. There was that whole drama that went on with Martin Johnson. I don't think Avril would really be that dumb to try to make an album with songs like 17 and HK together with songs like LMG, GYWYL, BG, FF, and HH. We don't know anything for sure, but something tells me her original plan was an album full of songs like the tripod songs and ballads like Falling Fast and Hush Hush. Then Epic decided she needed radio friendly pop songs, which is where the "fun" songs came from. Perhaps she thought they would be satisfied with the summer songs or 17, maybe even HK, but then they wanted HTNGU and RNR. Yes, Avril was involved with the writing of those songs. It doesn't mean that Epic still isn't partially responsible. For all we know, Avril wrote much better "fun" songs for radio, I mean 17 is a much better song and more meaningful, yet Epic did not think it was good enough to be a single. Epic will only release the songs they feel like. For all we know, Avril was instructed very specifically of what they were looking for, or Martin took over the process and made the songs how Epic wanted them, full of dumb and meaningless lyrics and fake pop beats. We don't know. The only people who know exactly what went down are Avril and Epic. I suspect there was a lot more that went down that we don't know about. Something very clearly happened with Martin. My guess is that Avril was not happy with the way he produced those songs and wanted him to do them over, but Martin refused unless he was paid more money, which Epic clearly didn't/doesn't have because they are a small label. And voila, we get stuck with poorly produced pop tunes. Also, we have no way of knowing what sort of promo plan Epic had lined up for Avril. Once they saw that the first 2 singles brought meh results, they probably just figured they were better off pouring their resources into other artists like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony. I really doubt Avril is that stupid that she would refuse to go out and promote her record. She absolutely did every opportunity that came her way, all the festivals, the opening gig for Backstreet Boys, the award shows, the Google Hangouts, etc. The only reason there was no promo is because Epic did not provide it for her. There is not a major label artist in this industry that would openly refuse a promotional plan from their label to promote something they consider very close to them and have worked hard on for 1-2 years. Come on, I mean, we all know Avril is not much into the social media thing or that sometimes she gets bored in interviews, but give her some credit. She's been at this for over a decade and knows by now how the game is played. Clearly what happened is the marketing team changed after WYWH, they saw how the first 2 singles performed and saw that Avril's popularity has declined, and decided their limited resources would be put to better use in some of their more current acts like Meghan Trainor and Fifth Harmony, both of whom have done well with their current projects. Avril simply needs to move to a label that has more money and more resources. Big Machine seems to allow their artists creative freedom but they also have large resources. They are the biggest independent label in the world. I wish somehow Avril could go there. I will try to organise my post a bit, cause you wrote so much About the pop-songs: I dont think it was Avrils intention to do serious tripod stuff only. She always loves fun songs and even mentioned that she felt re-inspired and young again - and she also said she wanted to find a balance of fun-songs and serious-songs. But that's not the point. What I wanted to say was: When Epic told her to do pop-songs, why did she have to come up with stupid songs like HTNUP? I mean, look at Katy Perry songs; they are pure pop but still enjoyable and most of them have a message or a great kind of humor (Last Friday night is so funny, Firework is inspiring, ET has good lyrics etc.). Nobody forced Avril to sing about getting drunk, partying all day and behaving like a teenager. And I highly doubt that Epic wanted Avril to do "dumb and meaningless" songs. But we already discussed this problem many times: Avril doesnt seem to understand that pop-songs can have a meaning, too. btw - I think 17 is a great song, it's just the bad production that ruins it. About the Martin/Avril conflict: We have no idea what was going on. I seriously doubt that it was because Avril wasnt satisfied with the production but Epic didnt want to pay Martin to re-produce them. Songs like Push and WTH have a bad production, too - and they have nothing to do with Martin. Avril just isnt that passionate about music anymore, that's why I think she often doesnt care enough about details like background vocals and production anymore. Whatever happened between Avril and Martin didnt affect the single choices, at least it seems like that. So maybe it was more a personal problem between them. But I agree that Epic made poor single-choices by releasing HTNGU and RnR instead of songs like 17 or tripod-songs. About promo: As I said, I agree that Epic didnt do their best with the promo. But it makes no sense to organise promo when the artist/Avril herself doesnt want to do enough. Well, Google-hangout etc. are nice but too less. Avril has to understand that without interacting on Social Media (sorry Avril, re-tweeing fan-art is not enough...) she wont get more fans and her left fans will leave her sooner or later. She doesnt have to show all her private life but she could at least give us a better view into her career-life (touring, recording, concerts, etc. - like she did with WTH.tv). I'm not the only one who saw that she seemed bored of her own album during the AL-era. She didnt even talk about RnR and her other songs, only HK/HTNGU/Bad girl. She didnt even mention her other songs like Hush Hush and Falling fast once... She could do a lot more to safe her career but she doesnt want to and I understand that Epic doesnt want to throw the money away for an artist that doesnt seem to care that much about her own career. I agree, that Avril should search for another label that fits better to her vision of her career, because Epic and Avril want different things and that gets more and more obvious. Sorry for this long post I understand all of that, however I disagree. Avril has made fun and catchy pop songs in the past that were not forced upon her or were not generic, throwaway pop/rock songs. On her first album, we know she wanted to do a rock album with songs like Losing Grip and Unwanted. Arista clearly didn't want that, they even almost dropped her because of that. So she compromised and took the album in a more guitar-driven pop direction. She was paired with The Matrix where they came up with radio ready songs like Complicated, Sk8er Boi, Anything But Ordinary, and Things I'll Never Say. All of them were or could have been hit songs, they're all really catchy and radio friendly but also have meaningful messages to them. They were very unique for their time in the midst of all the Britney Spears bubblegum pop. On Under My Skin she did the same thing, only she took more creative control. She still had the radio friendly hits she knew she would need. Don't Tell Me and My Happy Ending are both very catchy, radio friendly pop/rock songs, but again, both have meaningful messages to them. Then we have The Best Damn Thing and Girlfriend. Girlfriend was the first time she had ever done something truly pop-oriented with silly lyrics. But the sound was completely new from her and completely different from what was happening on pop radio. The lyrics and message were silly, but the sound was unique. It was something Avril had never done before and that no one else was doing at the time. The production was killer and easily one of the strongest singles she has ever released. Goodbye Lullaby was where her attitude towards writing pop songs changed and I think it was because they were forced upon her. Avril, as with the examples I showed above, is entirely capable of writing catchy, radio ready pop songs that have meaning. She did it with the AL album with 17. But something happened that made her change that. We don't know if it's Avril or if the people she's working with are taking over the writing process and coming up with this stuff. What the Hell, Here's To Never Growing Up, and Rock N Roll can all be described as disposable, throwaway, generic pop songs with little meaning or substance to them. Complicated, My Happy Ending, and Girlfriend are not. We don't know how those writing sessions went down, we don't know if RCA and Epic behind the scenes told Avril that her songs needed to sound a certain way or told the producers they were looking for songs that sounded like what was on radio, etc. Maybe it was Avril that did it, maybe not. But there was a very clear difference in her attitude and demeanor when she spoke about and performed songs like Complicated, DTM, MHE, and GF, than when she spoke about and performed WTH, HTNGU, and RNR. You can tell those last 3 songs lack that "Avril" touch that the other 4 songs definitely have. I get the impression that, given how there were 4-5 other writers on HTNGU and RNR, that she was barely involved with the writing of those songs, therefore they feel much less personal to her. So like I said, Avril has proven before that she's totally capable of writing fun pop songs that are radio friendly and that do have a unique sound and meaningful lyrics. Why all of a sudden would that change, except if the record label was involved? 17 could have been a perfect lead single for AL, it's catchy and radio friendly with a nice message, yet Epic chose not to release it. SOS and BS were nice summer songs, ok BS has a bit of an immature message and lyrics, but overall I think either of those songs could have also fit the bill, yet they did not choose them. They were clearly looking for "party anthems" and that basically means lyrics about drinking and acting like a stupid teenager. I also don't agree about the promo thing. There isn't much that social media can do for promoting. Avril tweeted a download link to her single when it came out, she tweeted about upcoming appearances, she tweeted BTS pics from when she shot music videos. Social media is not going to push record sales. The best type of promo is performances and interviews, which Epic did not book enough of. At the end of the day promo is Epic's job. Avril is also responsible for helping to promote too, but she did what she could IMO, and at the end of the day, her job is to show up for the appearances and do the performances and do the interviews, her job is not to push sales or book gigs. I do agree she didn't talk enough about the other songs on the album. I'm disappointed there was no track-by-track commentary or BTS footage of the making of the album. I'm disappointed AvrilTV ended after only 6 episodes. Unfortunately, we don't know the reason why those things didn't happen and it's possible it was not because of Avril. We talked about it a long time ago and wondered why there wasn't any BTS footage or album commentary and we wondered if maybe her regular videographer Dipple quit or had other projects. The last episode of AvrilTV was clearly shot with an iPhone, so something clearly happened with the guy who normally did that stuff. Not that she needs a professional videographer to upload simple BTS videos, but since we know Avril isn't tech savvy, I don't think she can or wants to try filming and uploading stuff herself. I also believe the promo thing is a vicious cycle. Epic doesn't want to promote Avril because she isn't popular anymore, and Avril seems like she doesn't care because they don't care. It's kind of a 2 way street. Epic doesn't want to waste money on someone who looks like they don't care but that person doesn't look like they care because they aren't getting any promo. And then it just continues back and forth. At the end of the day, Avril's job is to make the music and perform and do interviews. And at the end of the day, Epic's job is to release the right singles that they think will have success on radio and to book performances and interviews for her. This worked with Avril's first 3 albums and everyone was happy. Now because neither party is really doing their job, it's not working and nobody is happy.
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Silent Soul
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Post by Silent Soul on Apr 26, 2015 0:55:32 GMT
I think that this whole "we have to put out a radiofriendly pop-song as a lead single" thinking is complete nonsense. I think that it doesn't matter if she puts out a pop-song or a ballad/indie-tripod-song as a lead single. If you look at artists like Lana Del Rey or Tove Lo. They didn't put out a pop-song as a lead single but still got radio-airplay as f***. Especially Lana Del Rey. She is the best example that you don't have to make mainstream-pop music to get a lot of airplay. I still don't understand how she managed that Or this new "Take Me To Church" song, it's the same. He took a ballad as the lead single and still got airplay. I don't understand why Avril is always so afraid to put out a ballad as a lead single. Ballads can also be very successful.
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