BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 26, 2015 1:41:12 GMT
I still think either 17 or Hello Heartache would have been much better choices for lead singles, especially HH. But then again, Avril is just not as popular as she used to be, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered what she put out. Such as HTNGU was, it still peaked in the Top 20 on BB and sold 1 million copies. It did well in many other countries too. So maybe her pop songs do do better than her ballads.
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Silent Soul
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Post by Silent Soul on Apr 26, 2015 3:09:40 GMT
I still think either 17 or Hello Heartache would have been much better choices for lead singles, especially HH. But then again, Avril is just not as popular as she used to be, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered what she put out. Such as HTNGU was, it still peaked in the Top 20 on BB and sold 1 million copies. It did well in many other countries too. So maybe her pop songs do do better than her ballads. But how can it be that Avril isn't that relevant anymore but other pop-rock artists like P!nk or Kelly Clarkson are?
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Apr 26, 2015 4:01:12 GMT
I still think either 17 or Hello Heartache would have been much better choices for lead singles, especially HH. But then again, Avril is just not as popular as she used to be, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered what she put out. Such as HTNGU was, it still peaked in the Top 20 on BB and sold 1 million copies. It did well in many other countries too. So maybe her pop songs do do better than her ballads.This, along with what Silent Soul said about artists like Lana Del Ray and Hozier. The public is unpredictable. One week a super pop song will be in top and the next week a ballad may be all the hype. I I think social media plays a big part in what becomes popular, not because of promo through social media, but the general public spreading their likes and dislikes through social media. When one song starts getting a lot of fans and attention, it spreads and spreads. Unless you are an we-known artist who stays on top, there are a million different reasons how a song by a no-name artist can become popular. Whether Avril releases pop songs without much personal connection and meaning or songs with deep, emotional lyrics, at the end of the day, I whole-heartedly believe that proper promotion will help her. I remember back in 2011 when Avril performed WTh on Rockin New Years Eve. WTH got good promo initially, I even heard iron the radio on several occasions. It was afterwards, when Epic took over the reigns from RCA that promo went down the drain. RCA may have given Avril their share of confrontation, but they still did a better job than Epic has. If Avril got proper promotion, she could be doing extremely well right now, besides just in Eastern Asia. Means you are right, it is Avril's job to show up for interviews and performances. Her management team is who books appearances. Avril is the artist and therefore plays a part in everything, but her label is failing her.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Apr 26, 2015 4:14:23 GMT
I think that this whole "we have to put out a radiofriendly pop-song as a lead single" thinking is complete nonsense. I think that it doesn't matter if she puts out a pop-song or a ballad/indie-tripod-song as a lead single. If you look at artists like Lana Del Rey or Tove Lo. They didn't put out a pop-song as a lead single but still got radio-airplay as f***. Especially Lana Del Rey. She is the best example that you don't have to make mainstream-pop music to get a lot of airplay. I still don't understand how she managed that Or this new "Take Me To Church" song, it's the same. He took a ballad as the lead single and still got airplay. I don't understand why Avril is always so afraid to put out a ballad as a lead single. Ballads can also be very successful. Is it Avril's, her label's or both? She's never released a ballad as 1st single. The closest thing was WYG as 2nd, and after a massive 1st single like Girfriend. While IWY, KHO and WYG had respectable runs on charts, her biggest hits were more upbeat, poppy songs like Complicated and Girlfriend. Also, she doesn't seem to value ballads/softer songs when it comes to performances/tours, and the only ballad she consistently performs on stage is IWY, which is (fortunately) her favourite song to perform. Other than that, she'll perform the ballad that has been released as single for the album, and perhaps throw a KHO, WYWH or WYG from previous albums. She will still make and release (as album tracks) some other ones, but they always end up being unperformed and forgotten (by her, at least) in a heartbeat after album's release. About the OP, that statement was made even before the album started to being made. I'm sure she was being sincere and was excited to work L.A. after a bad experience with RCA. But it finally happened something similar, again. She worked with THe Runners between end of 2011 and beginning of 2012, then she worked some weeks with the "Tripod" before going to France in April 2012, saying the album was "done". After that experience, she started to work again with the Tripod for several months, both Avril and L.A. Reid confirmed the album was "done" and it would be released at the end of 2012 o "top of 2013". But then Martin Johnson and J-Kash happened and half the "original" album was scrapped to make room for "hit songs". Then, a promising album/era ended up being a half-assed/underwhelming album with watered-down, bland pop songs, some really stupid songs like HK and some nice "indie" songs like FF, HeHe; an over-the-place album that didn't satisfy anybody; and a messy era in a lot of aspects, from inconsistent promo to a underwhelming (to say the least) tour. Let's hope things go better for next album/era, especially when it comes to Avril doing what she REALLY wants and music quality.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 12:06:34 GMT
I still think either 17 or Hello Heartache would have been much better choices for lead singles, especially HH. But then again, Avril is just not as popular as she used to be, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered what she put out. Such as HTNGU was, it still peaked in the Top 20 on BB and sold 1 million copies. It did well in many other countries too. So maybe her pop songs do do better than her ballads. But how can it be that Avril isn't that relevant anymore but other pop-rock artists like P!nk or Kelly Clarkson are? P!nk works REALLY hard. Even after having a baby, the following year she released an album (The Truth About Love) and went on a full extensive world tour. P!nk has also evolved as an artist, each album is different from one another - she started out making R&B music now pop/rock stuff. She has stayed relevant because she has managed to make good quality music, lyrics that are meaningful and has evolved. Also her world tours are not just her standing still singing live in front of an audience, P!ink is a performer - her shows are not dull. Don't know if Kelly Clarkson is much more successful than Avril; I'd say aside from the Grammy wins for Kelly, they have both done just as good as each other.
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Silent Soul
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Post by Silent Soul on Apr 26, 2015 12:13:37 GMT
But how can it be that Avril isn't that relevant anymore but other pop-rock artists like P!nk or Kelly Clarkson are? P!nk works REALLY hard. Even after having a baby, the following year she released an album (The Truth About Love) and went on a full extensive world tour. P!nk has also evolved as an artist, each album is different from one another - she started out making R&B music now pop/rock stuff. She has stayed relevant because she has managed to make good quality music, lyrics that are meaningful and has evolved. Also her world tours are not just her standing still singing live in front of an audience, P!ink is a performer - her shows are not dull. Don't know if Kelly Clarkson is much more successful than Avril; I'd say aside from the Grammy wins for Kelly, they have both done just as good as each other. Have to agree 100%! I didn't thought about that (I posted this at 3 am, so my brain was not working very well )
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YänniBanäni
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Post by YänniBanäni on Apr 26, 2015 12:33:09 GMT
^also Pink has way better producers (if you ignore Blow Me One Last Kiss)
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 26, 2015 12:57:23 GMT
Pink and Kelly are also not on Flopic Records
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 13:05:17 GMT
Pink and Kelly are also not on Flopic Records They are both on RCA though. So why and from what it seems, did they both get the artistic freedom that Avril did not. I wonder would Avril consider recording other people's songs (Like KC) instead of writing (co-writing) everything herself?
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 26, 2015 13:39:52 GMT
Pink and Kelly are also not on Flopic Records They are both on RCA though. So why and from what it seems, did they both get the artistic freedom that Avril did not. I wonder would Avril consider recording other people's songs (Like KC) instead of writing (co-writing) everything herself? The thing is Avril pretty much did what she wanted for TBDT, which was mainly a pop record with a pop image. GL was meant to be a stripped down, acoustic, raw singer/songwriter type record, which was not a very popular sound on radio at the time. Both of Pink's and Kelly's recent records are very pop. I think RCA has always pushed their artists to do pop. They did it when Lee DeWyze won American Idol, they did it to Adam Lambert (and also had wanted him to do a covers album until he was able to get out of the contract), they did it to Britney on her latest album, even though Britney wanted the songs, like Avril, to be personal. They had also done the exact same thing to Kelly on her My December record. Unless you are willing to make a pure pop album, you won't have a peaceful time with RCA. I'm pretty sure Avril has always said she wants to be involved with the writing of every song that goes on her album. Maybe her opinion on that has changed but I think she has always wanted to feel part of the process and have the songs mean something to her, so I doubt she will ever record other peoples' songs, even though she could possibly have a bigger chance for a hit that way.
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Silent Soul
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Post by Silent Soul on Apr 26, 2015 14:31:32 GMT
AT LEAST she is very popular in Asia
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Apr 26, 2015 16:18:15 GMT
The thing is Avril pretty much did what she wanted for TBDT, which was mainly a pop record with a pop image. GL was meant to be a stripped down, acoustic, raw singer/songwriter type record, which was not a very popular sound on radio at the time. Both of Pink's and Kelly's recent records are very pop. I think RCA has always pushed their artists to do pop. They did it when Lee DeWyze won American Idol, they did it to Adam Lambert (and also had wanted him to do a covers album until he was able to get out of the contract), they did it to Britney on her latest album, even though Britney wanted the songs, like Avril, to be personal. They had also done the exact same thing to Kelly on her My December record. Unless you are willing to make a pure pop album, you won't have a peaceful time with RCA. I'm pretty sure Avril has always said she wants to be involved with the writing of every song that goes on her album. Maybe her opinion on that has changed but I think she has always wanted to feel part of the process and have the songs mean something to her, so I doubt she will ever record other peoples' songs, even though she could possibly have a bigger chance for a hit that way. It's so ironic that RCA wanted Avril to be like everyone else (pop) when making GL, since a bunch of labels wanted their artists to be like Avril back in 2002/2003. It's funny how things change like that. I remember Avril saying from the beginning of her career that she never wanted to be someone who sang other people's songs and that she would only be able to sing songs that she helped write and create. And even though Arista tried to push the more pop songs like Complicated and Sk8er Boi, Avril still got her way and was involved in the writing process. So even though it has been a bumpy ride for Avril during the past two album cycles, at least she has always been able to be a part of the writing process and give her songs a personal touch.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 17:46:54 GMT
Y'all can't seriously blame Avril for songs she said she didn't want to do. Just because she said she wanted upbeat songs (which is a part of who she and and I honestly don't think that will change any time soon) doesn't mean that they're crap. Literally anything produced by Martin Johnson was made last minute. She even said that HTNGU was the last song made before she said she was working on more with him. I don't get the issue people on here have over upbeat songs in the first place. I get that that can be produced so crappily -cough-martinjohnson-cough- but when done right, they can be GOOD songs.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 26, 2015 19:02:18 GMT
Y'all can't seriously blame Avril for songs she said she didn't want to do. Just because she said she wanted upbeat songs (which is a part of who she and and I honestly don't think that will change any time soon) doesn't mean that they're crap. Literally anything produced by Martin Johnson was made last minute. She even said that HTNGU was the last song made before she said she was working on more with him. I don't get the issue people on here have over upbeat songs in the first place. I get that that can be produced so crappily -cough-martinjohnson-cough- but when done right, they can be GOOD songs. I've always greatly preferred Avril's upbeat and fun songs to ballads and serious songs. But I think peoples' main issue is that recently, like TBDT era onwards, most of her upbeat songs have immature lyrics. It's not that they're opposed to her writing upbeat songs, it's that the message and lyrics always seems to be drinking, getting drunk, putting middle fingers to the sky, getting out of school for a bitchin summer, fat kids on smarties, making out with your friend, messing in bed, never growing up, etc. We all know she has that "stay forever young" mentality, but now that she's 30 these types of lyrics are really just kind of embarrassing now. It doesn't bother me as much as it does others (HK is actually a guilty pleasure song of mine) but I can see why other people are bothered by these types of lyrics.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Apr 26, 2015 19:23:01 GMT
Y'all can't seriously blame Avril for songs she said she didn't want to do. Just because she said she wanted upbeat songs (which is a part of who she and and I honestly don't think that will change any time soon) doesn't mean that they're crap. Literally anything produced by Martin Johnson was made last minute. She even said that HTNGU was the last song made before she said she was working on more with him. I don't get the issue people on here have over upbeat songs in the first place. I get that that can be produced so crappily -cough-martinjohnson-cough- but when done right, they can be GOOD songs. The problem is that her upbeat songs last albums aren't good. I would even add some of TBDT, but at least that album was musically good, in general (lyrics, attitude more questionable). I don't have a problem with Avril having upbeat songs, the problem is that they've been more on the immature side since TBDT. 17 is a good example of upbeat pop songs that is moderately good; nice lyrics, catchy melody; too bad the production is underwhelming, to say the least. HTNGU looked a bit half-assed and forced; RnR was musically decent but it looked like a copycat of other songs, nothing fresh and original, and the song as a whole looked forced as well. Lately, her upbeat songs look non-genuine and half-assed. As Andrea said, the problem comes with immature lyrics and topics. I think she could perfectly make some mature upbeat songs about her life on her 30s, but instead she makes stupid songs about HK, not growing up and being "rock and roll", to name a few. And they are always released as singles! The "summer songs" were decent, but they looked kind of fake and shoehorned, like all the "hit songs" she's been releasing since GL. She needs to find a good balance between upbeat and mature, because she's been struggling with that since ages ago. I think it's time, long overdue.
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