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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 6:23:44 GMT
I think it's weird that people blame the singles for GL's poor sales when Taylor Swift's Red did VERY well and the singles were nothing like the rest of the record. There are lots of reasons why an album might flop, but I personally believe the clincher is how good the album is, and the rest of GL just wasn't very good. I can't remember what the critics were saying about it, but at the very least, it was different to her previous efforts, and people don't like things that are different. People aren't stupid, either. They're not going to buy something they're not into, unless they're a self-described fan of an artist who buys everything they put out. Let's face it, 'The sounds of Avril's snoring and other bodily functions' would probably be in our collections if it existed.
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Jun 27, 2015 9:32:20 GMT
I'm ashamed that I have to ask, but I really can't remember. What video does this GIF come from? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 11:24:38 GMT
I'm ashamed that I have to ask, but I really can't remember. What video does this GIF come from? Thanks. Link broken. :/ EDIT: Never mind, I see it. No idea where it's from though
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jun 27, 2015 12:38:54 GMT
The reason Taylor's album sold so well is because of one simple reason: She's Taylor. She could put out an album of fart noises and it would shoot to #1 immediately. The quality of the music and singles has very little to do with how well an artist sells- if they are the current trend and have lots of supportive fans, that's how they sell.
Personally it doesn't make any sense at all to compare Avril or any other artist to Taylor. T is a very rare artist right now, she's the only one right now who can still manage to sell millions in an era of low album sales. Why? Because she just has that power. She has millions of dedicated fans. Her team promotes her. Avril was in an entirely different situation by the time GL came out. The 4 year delay was a big part of the problem. And I think many fans had already left because of TBDT era and more left because they got tired of waiting. Any fans that left during TBDT that actually came back when they heard GL would be a softer record probably left again when the first 2 singles were just like TBDT material. She also didn't get as much promo as her first 3 records.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 12:52:47 GMT
She could put out an album of fart noises and it would shoot to #1 immediately. I know you're exaggerating the point for comedic effect (I do that all the time), but I disagree. Sure, her hardcore fans would hand over their money for anything, but I think the average person and 'casual fan' is a bit more discerning than that. Maybe Red was just a good album? And yes, promo matters. It matters a lot. But it's not like GL wasn't promoted AT ALL. Come on, everyone knew who Avril Lavigne was in 2011, and everyone knew about her new album. What more did they need to know? If we were talking about random novelty single sales, then I might be on your side of the fence. How many copies of Gangnam Style or that stupid Crazy Frog song were sold? Clearly their success had little to do with the quality of the music. It was a "thing".
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jun 27, 2015 13:52:13 GMT
She could put out an album of fart noises and it would shoot to #1 immediately. I know you're exaggerating the point for comedic effect (I do that all the time), but I disagree. Sure, her hardcore fans would hand over their money for anything, but I think the average person and 'casual fan' is a bit more discerning than that. Maybe Red was just a good album? And yes, promo matters. It matters a lot. But it's not like GL wasn't promoted AT ALL. Come on, everyone knew who Avril Lavigne was in 2011, and everyone knew about her new album. What more did they need to know? If we were talking about random novelty single sales, then I might be on your side of the fence. How many copies of Gangnam Style or that stupid Crazy Frog song were sold? Clearly their success had little to do with the quality of the music. It was a "thing". The level of promo in comparison to her first 3 records was very minimal. I never claimed that GL wasn't promoted at all, it was, but not nearly to the extent of her others. It wasn't until Epic handled WYWH that Avril finally received consistently good promo spots. WTH had several promo spots and that's why it ended up doing well. Smile did not get that treatment, hence why it failed. That's what she should have had all along. It has nothing to do with knowing who the artist is. It's knowing they have a new album out and hearing some of the material. There are many artists I know about, I don't necessarily know they have something new out unless it's an artist I follow closely. The first time I heard Andy Grammer's new singles were when he performed on the Idol finale. The amount of hardcore fans that will rush out to buy the album is small, especially for Avril at that point in her career. You don't need to inform those people she has a new album. It's the casual fans who usually don't have a clue what she's doing and are the ones who need to be informed. Those are the ones who forget about her and where promo comes into play. She could even potentially gain new fans who never liked her before because of promo. Promo is not for hardcore fans that already like her- it's for people who have forgotten her or maybe aren't a fan already.
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Jun 27, 2015 14:19:14 GMT
I agree with Bogo on this.
As for the importance of quality of an album – I think that once an artist becomes really famous and trendy, the quality of the actual music stops matter. But sooner or later, the artist won't be trendy anymore and then they'll need to come up with something really good to reach the top again (plus the promotion is a must).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 14:19:51 GMT
You don't need to explain how promo works. I get it.
But I'd argue that Avril was still a pretty big name in 2011. Big enough to sell GL, without ramming it down people's throats. We're not talking about some obscure indie artist, or some dude who performed on American Idol that one time. I struggle to imagine who wouldn't have known who she was, barring people who'd never seen a radio or a computer before.
AL could have used better promotion, though. It had been, what, 6 years since her last megahit? Avril who?
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Jun 27, 2015 14:24:16 GMT
Part of the reason that GL didn't do as well as the first 3 albums are the single choices. The singles weren't bad songs, but they poorly represented the entire album. All of the GL singles, which were produced by Max Martin, were very pop and were only about a ¼ of the album. The other ¾ of GL were different. And with digital stores (and streaming services) being the main way that people get there music, anyone can preview all the tracks before purchasing.
It's not like in the early and mid-2000s when the first 3 albums came out and you had to buy a cd at a store and listen to it after buying it (with the exception of those cd scanners/preview-players in certain stores). Even if all three singles were equally promoted and all promoted well, that wouldn't change that GL was an album with an EP of really-pop songs thrown into it. If the singles made people want to buy the album, just by previewing the tracks, they could be turned off because it's not what they were expecting.
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In Wonderland
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Post by In Wonderland on Jun 27, 2015 14:25:38 GMT
I'm ashamed that I have to ask, but I really can't remember. What video does this GIF come from? Thanks. It is from the Goodbye Lullaby Special Edition DVD - The Making of...
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jun 27, 2015 23:17:27 GMT
You don't need to explain how promo works. I get it. But I'd argue that Avril was still a pretty big name in 2011. Big enough to sell GL, without ramming it down people's throats. We're not talking about some obscure indie artist, or some dude who performed on American Idol that one time. I struggle to imagine who wouldn't have known who she was, barring people who'd never seen a radio or a computer before. AL could have used better promotion, though. It had been, what, 6 years since her last megahit? Avril who? Britney Spears is a big name and her last album didn't sell shit because there was no promo. And she is arguably bigger and has more fans than Avril. It only sold a couple hundred thousand copies, which goes to show that the number of hardcore fans is small and that promo counts for more than you think it does.
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luthius
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Post by luthius on Jun 28, 2015 0:51:16 GMT
You don't need to explain how promo works. I get it. But I'd argue that Avril was still a pretty big name in 2011. Big enough to sell GL, without ramming it down people's throats. We're not talking about some obscure indie artist, or some dude who performed on American Idol that one time. I struggle to imagine who wouldn't have known who she was, barring people who'd never seen a radio or a computer before. AL could have used better promotion, though. It had been, what, 6 years since her last megahit? Avril who? Britney Spears is a big name and her last album didn't sell shit because there was no promo. And she is arguably bigger and has more fans than Avril. It only sold a couple hundred thousand copies, which goes to show that the number of hardcore fans is small and that promo counts for more than you think it does. One of the reasons that nowadays albums also sell alot less, is that people download alot more then in the past, or use spotify and stuff like that. You just don't need to buy albums anymore since you can get everything from the internet, and people saying that hardcore fans always buy stuff, is also not true, enough hardcore fans still download
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niccolo
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Post by niccolo on Jun 28, 2015 2:57:04 GMT
You don't need to explain how promo works. I get it. But I'd argue that Avril was still a pretty big name in 2011. Big enough to sell GL, without ramming it down people's throats. We're not talking about some obscure indie artist, or some dude who performed on American Idol that one time. I struggle to imagine who wouldn't have known who she was, barring people who'd never seen a radio or a computer before. AL could have used better promotion, though. It had been, what, 6 years since her last megahit? Avril who? Britney Spears is a big name and her last album didn't sell shit because there was no promo. And she is arguably bigger and has more fans than Avril. It only sold a couple hundred thousand copies, which goes to show that the number of hardcore fans is small and that promo counts for more than you think it does. We'll the album was also horribly reviewed and many fans didn't think much of it either. I am referring to both Britney Jean and GL (IMO, ofc)
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Jul 4, 2015 17:05:52 GMT
Avril just crossed the magical line of 2 000 000 000 views on her VEVO YouTube channel! Well done!
BTW, Avril has the 98th most viewed YouTube channel.
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thyarchery
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Post by thyarchery on Jul 4, 2015 17:13:22 GMT
Avril just crossed the magical line of 2 000 000 000 views on her VEVO YouTube channel! Well done! BTW, Avril has the 98th most viewed YouTube channel. Wow, dude, that's like roughly one fourth of the world's population had watched one of their videos once. It's pretty amazing, if you look it that way.
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