Light02
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Post by Light02 on Aug 4, 2015 21:37:46 GMT
Otherkin: someone who identifies as non-human
What do you guys think about this? I'm kind of worried to share my opinion because I did so on a different forum and I got some negative reactions but here it goes: it seems to me that this is some sort of coping mechanism for mental illness. I also believe that it is destructive because it seems similar, if not the same, as dissociation and that is in no way healthy. If you are mentally ill to begin with and you have problems with dissociating it seems to me that this coping mechanism will just make things worse.
I should also mention that there's this thing called fictionkin (identifying as a fictional character/s) and also factkin (identifying as a real existing person/people). Compared to this, I think identifying as an animal is a bit more understandable. Because you being a fictional character is simply impossible. They do not exist, they are a figment of someone else's imagination, therefore they are not you. Same goes for someone identifying as, say, Markiplier (a youtuber). He is a different person than you, you cannot be him. If you believe that you are a fictional character or anyone other than yourself, it seems to me that your perception of reality is warped and that even if this is a coping mechanism, it is a harmful one, especially if you have problems with dissociating to begin with.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Aug 4, 2015 22:15:40 GMT
This is the first I've ever heard about this but it does seem like a personality disorder, or something to me. Of course, there are a lot of people who "identify" as this or that. There was a white woman recently who said she "identified" as African American, even though she isn't. Bruce Jenner "identifying" as a female rather than male. So I can see where it's confusing where the line is drawn as to when "identifying" as a certain thing is acceptable and when it's not. Bruce Jenner "identified" as a female, even though he wasn't one, does that mean he's got a mental illness? I think it's a quite complicated issue.
That being said, I do think someone who thinks they're a famous person or a fictional character has definitely got some kind of disorder or hallucination going on. I mean, if someone came on here and said "Hi guys, I'm Avril Lavigne! Welcome to my fan site, I hope you enjoy my new music!" when they are clearly not Avril, yeah that'd definitely not be normal at all.
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sam
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Post by sam on Aug 4, 2015 22:41:17 GMT
Otherkin has been around for a while and I do see it on Tumblr a lot- I won't give my opinion on it because I don't want to fuel anything. But I'm afraid this thread will turn into another -possible- flamewar over if they're valid or not, so I'll be watching this thread
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Light02
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Post by Light02 on Aug 4, 2015 23:35:47 GMT
A lot of otherkin persons admit to having a mental illness or rough past experiences in life and using this as a way to cope. I'm more interested in questioning whether it is a helpful coping mechanism or not, rather than questioning their sanity.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Aug 4, 2015 23:55:23 GMT
I think that question has a lot of gray area to it, it's not a black and white issue. It depends. For example, if someone came on here pretending to be Avril, it may be extremely weird, but it wouldn't exactly hurt anyone. On the other hand, if someone believes they are, let's say, some famous extreme athlete or stuntman, they could think they have the same abilities and seriously injure themselves. Ideally, the best way to cope with your problems is to talk to someone or get medical assistance, but obviously this doesn't always happen. I believe the psychological part of it is that some people think if they pretend to be someone else, then the problems go away.
For example, I saw a video made by this YouTuber, I forget her name, but she was from Australia and she made a video talking about her experience with sexual assault. But when she told the story, instead of using language like "I was sexually assaulted," she would refer to herself in the third person, like "Zoey was sexually assaulted," or whatever. As though it happened to someone else and not her. Because using words like "I was," "It happened to ME," etc. would make it real and make it true that it had happened to her, and not to someone else. But referring to herself in the third person made it seem as though it had happened to someone else and not her. It made it easier for her to talk about it if she referred to herself in third person, rather than saying "This happened to me." I don't think that's really a huge issue. It probably means she's still really emotionally scarred from it and isn't ready to come to full terms with what happened to her. Maybe someday she'll get to that point where she can use first person language, but for now this helps her get through it. I don't think it'd be healthy to go on this way forever though, because at some point you need to heal from things and come to terms with what has happened, or else you will never actually overcome it. I think if there are people out there that are so severely traumatized by something that happened to them that they resort to believing they aren't human, or believe they are someone else, they need to see a therapist to help them work through it. I believe it might be ok for a temporary amount of time, but not long term. That's just not a way to live.
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Light02
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Post by Light02 on Aug 5, 2015 1:08:03 GMT
This is the first I've ever heard about this but it does seem like a personality disorder, or something to me. Of course, there are a lot of people who "identify" as this or that. There was a white woman recently who said she "identified" as African American, even though she isn't. Bruce Jenner "identifying" as a female rather than male. So I can see where it's confusing where the line is drawn as to when "identifying" as a certain thing is acceptable and when it's not. Bruce Jenner "identified" as a female, even though he wasn't one, does that mean he's got a mental illness? I think it's a quite complicated issue. That being said, I do think someone who thinks they're a famous person or a fictional character has definitely got some kind of disorder or hallucination going on. I mean, if someone came on here and said "Hi guys, I'm Avril Lavigne! Welcome to my fan site, I hope you enjoy my new music!" when they are clearly not Avril, yeah that'd definitely not be normal at all. It'd be more respectful to use Caitlyn's preferred name and pronouns. (I'm saying this because I'm trans* myself and such things bother me) I think there is a difference between identifying as trans* and identifying as otherkin. Scientists have found that trans women's brains resemble cis females' (someone assigned female at birth who identifies as female) brains and trans men's brains resemble cis males' brains. (If you want me to, I can provide you with links to several articles that say so.) There is no such research about otherkin identified individuals yet. Also, some trans* people have body dysphoria (discomfort with one's body) and that's why they might wish to transition. 96% of trans* persons' body dysphoria disappears after transitioning. Anorexic people are also uncomfortable in their bodies but their ideal body image doesn't exist outside their own mind and that's why the treatment in that case is to get rid of that unhealthy ideal body image in the anorexic person's mind. I think it should be the same with otherkin persons because there is no way for them to transition, therefore we should get rid of their thoughts about wanting to have the body of a certain animal, for example, in order to cure them from their dysphoria. Dysphoria can make you deeply unhappy, even suicidal, and that's why I think that if someone's identification as otherkin is making them dysphoric then that is not a helpful coping mechanism at all.
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Light02
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Post by Light02 on Aug 5, 2015 1:20:13 GMT
I think that question has a lot of gray area to it, it's not a black and white issue. It depends. For example, if someone came on here pretending to be Avril, it may be extremely weird, but it wouldn't exactly hurt anyone. On the other hand, if someone believes they are, let's say, some famous extreme athlete or stuntman, they could think they have the same abilities and seriously injure themselves. Ideally, the best way to cope with your problems is to talk to someone or get medical assistance, but obviously this doesn't always happen. I believe the psychological part of it is that some people think if they pretend to be someone else, then the problems go away. For example, I saw a video made by this YouTuber, I forget her name, but she was from Australia and she made a video talking about her experience with sexual assault. But when she told the story, instead of using language like "I was sexually assaulted," she would refer to herself in the third person, like "Zoey was sexually assaulted," or whatever. As though it happened to someone else and not her. Because using words like "I was," "It happened to ME," etc. would make it real and make it true that it had happened to her, and not to someone else. But referring to herself in the third person made it seem as though it had happened to someone else and not her. It made it easier for her to talk about it if she referred to herself in third person, rather than saying "This happened to me." I don't think that's really a huge issue. It probably means she's still really emotionally scarred from it and isn't ready to come to full terms with what happened to her. Maybe someday she'll get to that point where she can use first person language, but for now this helps her get through it. I don't think it'd be healthy to go on this way forever though, because at some point you need to heal from things and come to terms with what has happened, or else you will never actually overcome it. I think if there are people out there that are so severely traumatized by something that happened to them that they resort to believing they aren't human, or believe they are someone else, they need to see a therapist to help them work through it. I believe it might be ok for a temporary amount of time, but not long term. That's just not a way to live. Of course they aren't hurting anyone else but I think they are hurting themselves, even if it's not physically. They're dissociating even further from reality and that is not healthy. And the example you're giving with this girl and people pretending to be someone else in order the problems to go away is exactly what I'm talking about, dissociation.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Aug 5, 2015 6:39:16 GMT
The idea of otherkin sounds completely ridiculous. I am in my right mind, so I am able to realize that humans are humans, nothing else. But for someone to identify as otherkin, something must be wrong in their nervous system. Obviously a human is a human. Saying you identify as something else doesn't make it true. Identifying as an animal i technically true because humans are a species of animal, but it's silly to do so. Identifying as an animal would be like me telling people that I have a pet animal rather than saying I have a pet dog. Although I would be correct (as dogs are animals), the word "dog" is a more distinct and descriptive term that is more appropriate to use.
But what exactly does "identify" mean? I think this is where the gray area is. We can only ever truly understand our own thoughts and can never fully understand what someone else is thinking (for example, is the green that I see the same as the green that you see). Along with this fact, there is also the fact that people lie and act. So we can't know what these "otherkin" people are meaning when they say they identify as such. Like, do they believe they are truly non-human? Do they know that they are human but wish to not be? Are they completely aware of what they are saying and putting on an elaborate ruse to deceive everyone else?
I don't think this otherkin and the like are similar to gender and sexuality. I can understand why it was brought up and how it has similar ideas (identifying, etc.), but it's not even close to being similar. The human body is very complex. We have DNA that isn't perfect and will have mutations (whether minuscule or life-altering), we have hormones that can be unbalanced (whether short-term or long-term due to DNA), and we have our cognitive thoughts. Gender, sexuality, identification, etc. can be very subjective and difficult to understand. Even the words themselves have unclear definitions.
But identifying as a fictional character or as someone else, that is definitely a disorder. I remember learning about it in my high school psychology class. People can have disorders and their brains make them think they are someone else.
I have never heard of "otherkin" before. It sounds kind of interesting. I'm too worried that this thread will get out of hand, as I don't think anyone will have strong opinions about this to get upset about. Anyway, thanks for posting - I learned something today, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 9:19:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:26:58 GMT
I can kind of see why trans is being mentioned, but clearly otherkin is very different. I watched this video (ignore the added subtitles) about a girl who identifies as otherkin, she says she is a wolf-dog hybrid. She says "Spiritually, I am a wolf". She later goes on to say that she researched wolves diet and body structure in order to understand herself more... If you identify as something, is that not how you feel? Wouldn't you have an inner voice telling you what your diet should be, ie "Hey, that bunny looks hella tasty" rather than, "Hey, I'd better use the internet so I can find out what I would eat if I was a wolf"? I dunno. I'm afraid, at least not in this girls case, I'm not buying it as a genuine disorder. But as long as she's not hurting anyone, whatever. It does seem like quite a cool disorder to have, no? Wait, is Otherkin the new Emo? - Some people genuinely have the associated issues, but the majority of people are just tagging along for the ride...? Oh and jeez - why did I just realise she is a wolf?! But of course, how horribly obvious...
Oh hey, anyone remember Stalking Cat? Was he Otherkin?
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Light02
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Post by Light02 on Aug 5, 2015 10:33:50 GMT
The idea of otherkin sounds completely ridiculous. I am in my right mind, so I am able to realize that humans are humans, nothing else. But for someone to identify as otherkin, something must be wrong in their nervous system. Obviously a human is a human. Saying you identify as something else doesn't make it true. Identifying as an animal i technically true because humans are a species of animal, but it's silly to do so. Identifying as an animal would be like me telling people that I have a pet animal rather than saying I have a pet dog. Although I would be correct (as dogs are animals), the word "dog" is a more distinct and descriptive term that is more appropriate to use. But what exactly does "identify" mean? I think this is where the gray area is. We can only ever truly understand our own thoughts and can never fully understand what someone else is thinking (for example, is the green that I see the same as the green that you see). Along with this fact, there is also the fact that people lie and act. So we can't know what these "otherkin" people are meaning when they say they identify as such. Like, do they believe they are truly non-human? Do they know that they are human but wish to not be? Are they completely aware of what they are saying and putting on an elaborate ruse to deceive everyone else?I don't think this otherkin and the like are similar to gender and sexuality. I can understand why it was brought up and how it has similar ideas (identifying, etc.), but it's not even close to being similar. The human body is very complex. We have DNA that isn't perfect and will have mutations (whether minuscule or life-altering), we have hormones that can be unbalanced (whether short-term or long-term due to DNA), and we have our cognitive thoughts. Gender, sexuality, identification, etc. can be very subjective and difficult to understand. Even the words themselves have unclear definitions. But identifying as a fictional character or as someone else, that is definitely a disorder. I remember learning about it in my high school psychology class. People can have disorders and their brains make them think they are someone else. I have never heard of "otherkin" before. It sounds kind of interesting. I'm too worried that this thread will get out of hand, as I don't think anyone will have strong opinions about this to get upset about. Anyway, thanks for posting - I learned something today, lol. If someone is pretending to be something or someone just for attention and they don't actually believe themself to be that that might be annoying but at least it isn't harmful to them or anyone else. If they're just pretending to be a fictional character for role play, that's fine, too. But some of them sound really convinced. For example, there's this thing called FNAFkin. That stands for Five Nights At Freddy's kin. The video game. I read a post of someone saying "I didn't want to hurt my friends... that puppet made me do it." They actually believe that they did whatever the fictional character did. Some others say, for example, "I know that in the books (or video game, or anime, or whatever) it says that this character is gay but, like, I'm not?!?? And I'm them?!??" And they also say "You can't argue with me about what's true about this character because I'm them and I know myself better than you do." even if what they're saying goes against what the author, or video game creator or whatever is saying. There was someone who identifies as an animatronic toy and he said that he can feel the animatronicness of his body. And to my understanding, they realize (or at least some of them do) that they have a human body, they just wish not to have it. A lot them say "I'm a cat (for example) trapped in a human's body. I feel like I should have a tail, and claws instead of nails." and other stuff like that. Also, lots of them say that there's nothing wrong with being otherkin and that they should be proud of it and I disagree with this, I don't think that this is something that should be normalized and celebrated, I think it's a sign that you should seek help. Also, I wanted to point out something that I find interesting. The other forum where I created a thread and shared my opinion on this topic was a sexuality and gender discussion forum and I posted this thread in the Hot Box sub-forum (where the controversial opinions go) and the people there are very open-minded (maybe a bit too much) and more than half of the replies I got there were supportive of otherkin individuals.
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Light02
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Post by Light02 on Aug 5, 2015 11:56:54 GMT
I can kind of see why trans is being mentioned, but clearly otherkin is very different. I watched this video (ignore the added subtitles) about a girl who identifies as otherkin, she says she is a wolf-dog hybrid. She says "Spiritually, I am a wolf". She later goes on to say that she researched wolves diet and body structure in order to understand herself more... If you identify as something, is that not how you feel? Wouldn't you have an inner voice telling you what your diet should be, ie "Hey, that bunny looks hella tasty" rather than, "Hey, I'd better use the internet so I can find out what I would eat if I was a wolf"?
I dunno. I'm afraid, at least not in this girls case, I'm not buying it as a genuine disorder. But as long as she's not hurting anyone, whatever. It does seem like quite a cool disorder to have, no? Wait, is Otherkin the new Emo? - Some people genuinely have the associated issues, but the majority of people are just tagging along for the ride...? Oh and jeez - why did I just realise she is a wolf?! But of course, how horribly obvious...
Oh hey, anyone remember Stalking Cat? Was he Otherkin?
I know, right? There was someone who said they are a fox and they hate the taste of fish. But still, every time she sees small fish she has the urge to catch it... with her mouth. Also, there's this post: kin-of-the-otherworld.tumblr.com/post/112351610776/fae-femmeboy-vampirekin-who-faint-at-the-sightAnd about Stalking Cat, some otherkin persons believe that he is otherkin but no one knows for sure.
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Post by Silent Soul on Aug 5, 2015 15:03:09 GMT
I know I said that it would be an interesting topic to discuss about, but everything I wanted to say, was already said. IMO I think that this is a topic, where you have to think about a lot and that your opinion can change every second. Like blizz I will be watching this thread and look what happens
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Post by Underclass King on Aug 5, 2015 17:50:09 GMT
With all due respect, I don't believe otherkin to actually be a thing. It's illogical to identify as things such as dragons, fairies and elves since they don't exist. Even identifying as things we do know exist such as a dog or deer is still pretty incomprehensible. It sounds to me like those that identify as "otherkin" have a case of clinical lycanthropy. However I've only seen this kind of behavior on Tumblr which isn't exactly surprising to me. I remember seeing a post where someone was discussing how they identified as a plant and they could "feel the pain" of other plants e.g. grass being walked on which is just plain ridiculous. Although I'm welcome for anyone identifying as otherkin or those that support the idea to enlighten me on the subject.
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Post by thyarchery on Aug 5, 2015 19:19:32 GMT
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