Sarah93
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Post by Sarah93 on Jan 24, 2017 21:50:52 GMT
I've always read "My Happy Ending" was about Jesse... even though it seems Avril was the one who dumped him for Deryck. I remember reading here in the forums a long time ago that Jesse left the band heartbroken. So, only themselves know what truly happened. He follows her on Twitter and Instagram, though lol Regarding Evan - comon guys, not just because they don't chat on public internet (twitter etc) that doesn't mean they don't talk or hang out or aren't friends anymore. I think most of UMS is about Jesse...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 6:00:50 GMT
Mystery: What were the three songs she sang for LA way back then.
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⋆niki⋆
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Post by ⋆niki⋆ on Jan 27, 2017 7:00:43 GMT
Mystery: What were the three songs she sang for LA way back then. Mystery: Is that the way the whole story happened at all?
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Sarah93
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Post by Sarah93 on Jan 27, 2017 21:37:06 GMT
Mystery: What were the three songs she sang for LA way back then. Mystery: Is that the way the whole story happened at all? I actually believe it did, maybe there are some untold details, but that's what happened.
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abo
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Post by abo on Jan 27, 2017 21:49:06 GMT
Mystery: Is that the way the whole story happened at all? I actually believe it did, maybe there are some untold details, but that's what happened. at 2:03 I think we all know she sang "Why" for LA but I hope this helps.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 27, 2017 22:35:44 GMT
I just know one of the songs was Why. The other 2 were country songs. Yes it did happen the way she has said it did, when she was in NY to record a demo and someone told LA Reid to check her out. He came to hear her sing and she sang those 3 songs for him. He signed her immediately or at least expressed interest in wanting to sign her. The actual agreements and contracts were finalized in November 2000. She went to NY initially in the summer.
Originally Avril was signed as a vocalist only and they had ideas for her to be a country artist presumably because that's what she auditioned with. They wanted her to be like Faith Hill. But she expressed interest in wanting to write and do pop/rock songs. I think that her manager at that time, Cliff Fabri, arranged and negotiated for her to be able to write. She initially showed them songs like Losing Grip and Unwanted and they almost dropped her. We don't know what went on behind the scenes but presumably a compromise was reached that Avril would go a bit more pop than she wanted but they wouldn't drop her. She spent about 6 months writing with people in NY but Avril wasn't happy with the songs so she went to LA to work with the Matrix and that was where the magic started happening. The rest is history as they say.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 6:22:13 GMT
It's that whole "went to LA to write" period that's the fuzziest and perhaps belongs on the Mystery thread. According LA Reid's book "Complicated" was the first finished song he heard and I believe JZ was there too on the first listen. They both loved it.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 28, 2017 13:38:35 GMT
It's that whole "went to LA to write" period that's the fuzziest and perhaps belongs on the Mystery thread. According LA Reid's book "Complicated" was the first finished song he heard and I believe JZ was there too on the first listen. They both loved it. I wouldn't be surprised if he embellished certain details of his book. Of course it sounds better to be like "Oh Complicated was the first song I heard and it was great" and of course it went on to become one of her biggest hits, rather than what actually happened with Avril almost being dropped and going through a lot of trial and error to find the right songs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 16:34:44 GMT
I'm not sure I'd call the man that gave Avril her start an "embellisher," especially in a book he wrote that's essentially his memoir. People write those to finally get the truth out, not obfuscate it. Before you apply a negative word like "embellish" to man's character you may want to at least read his book. If you do read the book you're prejudging, you would find out how LA agonized over the development of the artists he signed. There is no mention in the book that LA ever considered dropping Avril but considering she made a passing reference to it once and also others floated the rumor, I suppose one could possibly assume that someone down the chain considered pushing that to top management.
In his book, LA talks about the first meeting and the contract. He doesn't see her again until she walks into his office months later. He remarks that she transformed her "look" and that she knew from the start what she wanted, which made his job easier because they didn't have to "mold" her and besides, he wasn't sure how to shape her anyway. Signing Avril was a bold move for LA. He was new at the label, had never signed a artist like her before, and frankly, he was taking a big chance. He was blown away by the same things we are; her hauntingly clear and endearingly fragile voice, her moxie, her verve and her earnest direct engagement with the world around her. These are the Star qualities she possesses although I'm not sure she has ever allowed herself to fully embrace them. And even that trait draws us in and makes us root for her more.
LA also said in the first meeting where she sang that she never searched for a note and that he knew within seconds he was going to sign her, Is there more to the story? Perhaps. Some have said other labels were interested in hearing her so maybe he struck first. In his book he says they had a meeting to discuss various artist and that her A&R man he assigned to her (Josh Sarubin) played them "Complicated." He said he made him play it again and again and he thought it was a smash hit. Next he heard "Sk8er Boi" and then "I'm With You" and he was extremely happy that they had a real blockbuster in the making. He went on to say how the album release was getting held up by interoffice marketing squabbles and he was getting impatient. So he went around all that and pitched to Terry McBride (her manager at the time) that we should just "put out" Complicated, marketing plan be damned. We all know how that went. So I take LA at his word. It's an interesting book but it's not really "for" Avril fans. It's for him, which is why I believe it.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 28, 2017 17:17:42 GMT
Authors embellish details in their books all the time. Of course he is going to skip the part about how he wanted to make her a country artist and that they almost dropped her because it would make himself look bad. He blatantly said in an early LG era interview that he "would have messed it all up" if he had been allowed to dictate Avril's style. He was going to have her dress like Britney Spears, have her look nicer, wear more makeup, etc. In the end he let her do her thing, but I think he certainly had ideas originally about what he would have molded her into. I bet you anything if Avril came in without any clear image or she was willing to go along with whatever they told her to do, we would have seen her as a Britney clone.
There is probably a lot of stuff that went on behind the scenes of her early career we know nothing about and most likely never will.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 18:21:50 GMT
It's quite amazing how opinionated you are about a book you've never read. 😉 What does a generic phrase like "authors embellish details all the time" mean in this context? Some do, some don't. Some guys are jerks all the time, some aren't. It depends on the guy and it depends on the author. And you are pointing out what you think he omitted. That's not embellishment, it's its opposite. So you are accusing him of omission, for the record.☺️
Please, get your put downs straight. HaHa.
Of course he would try her out in country first, after all, like you stated, 2 of the 3 songs she sang were country. Like I said before, he said at their first real sit down meeting months after he signed her she had changed her image (on her own) and she was branding her own identity. This was after the poor results with the country experiment they did with her. You take out of context the whole thing about how he would have blown it trying to mold her. There was nothing "blatant" about how he wrote it in the book. He simply said he was glad he trusted her, and himself, enough to allow Avril to do her own thing. You are right about things we will never know and dropping her is certainly one of them. You state these rumors as fact when more than likely all such discussion like that is dictated by the legal department of the record label, not LA Reid. So unless you have proof then you are, unfortunately, guilty of what you mistakenly accused LA of: embellishment.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 28, 2017 18:57:19 GMT
It's quite amazing how opinionated you are about a book you've never read. 😉 What does a generic phrase like "authors embellish details all the time" mean in this context? Some do, some don't. Some guys are jerks all the time, some aren't. It depends on the guy and it depends on the author. And you are pointing out what you think he omitted. That's not embellishment, it's its opposite. So you are accusing him of omission, for the record.☺️ Please, get your put downs straight. HaHa. Of course he would try her out in country first, after all, like you stated, 2 of the 3 songs she sang was country. Like I said before, he said at their first real sit down meeting months after he signed her she had changed her image (on her own) and she was branding her own identity. This was after the poor results with the country experiment they did with her. You take out of context the whole thing about how he would have blown it trying to mold her. There was nothing "blatant" about how he wrote it in the book. He simply said he was glad he trusted her, and himself, enough to allow Avril to do her own thing. You are right about things we will never know and dropping her is certainly one of them. You state these rumors as fact when more than likely all such discussion like that is dictated by the legal department of the record label, not LA Reid. So unless you have proof then you are, unfortunately, guilty of what you mistakenly accused LA of: embellishment. I never said he embellished or omitted stuff from his book FOR A FACT. Just that I wouldn't be surprised if he did. You act like it's not possible for him to have done so at all. Hes going to spin the narrative how he wants people to see it, whether that means leaving out details or embellishing others, etc. I'm just saying I take stuff like this with a grain of salt because we don't know what's actually true and what isn't. Just because something is written in a book doesn't make it gospel. If Avril herself came out saying it happened exactly how LA described it, then I'd be more inclined to believe it. I don't take everything at face value. Just like how Butch Walker wrote a bunch of stuff about Avril in his book, like taking credit for the tie idea, Dr. Luke ripping off TBDT, etc. when we have no idea if that's true or not. It was never clear who wanted to drop her. We don't know if LA ever got to hear those rock songs. All I know is that Avril stated she showed "the label" songs like Losing Grip and Unwanted and she said quote, "It was like they wanted to drop me or something." Don't know who "they" is or if they "wanted" to drop her, or simply talked about dropping her, nearly dropped her, who knows. But it is not a rumor if Avril herself talked about it. Somebody at the label had thoughts about dropping her, whether it was LA or someone else. That's a fact. Avril said it herself. Maybe Complicated was the first completed song he had heard but maybe he meant it was the first completed song he heard that he thought was good enough for the album. I find it hard to believe that if she was writing songs for 6 months before that that he hadn't heard at least one song she was working on to see how she was coming along. Edit: This is her direct quote about the label thing: "Arista was drop-dead shit afraid that I would come out with a whole album that sounded like 'Unwanted' and 'Losing Grip,' " she says. "I swear they wanted to drop me or something. I don't feel like 'Complicated' represents me and my ability to write. But without 'Complicated,' I bet you anything I wouldn't have even sold a million records. The songs I did with the Matrix, yeah, they were good for my first record, but I don't want to be that pop anymore." Its a pretty vague quote though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 19:26:52 GMT
You are tenacious, Bogo, I'll give you that. LA writes about so many personal and professional errors he made that I find it hard to see a motive in him all of sudden trying to look like the know-it-all Hero when it comes to Avril. Once again, I believe him and maybe you might just believe him to.....if you bother to actually read the book. Then we could argue the "facts" better. 🤓
Comparing Butch or Luke to LA is a stretch and if I have to explain why, well, forget it.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 28, 2017 20:26:06 GMT
I don't care about reading his book. Moving on....
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Falling Into History
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Post by Falling Into History on Jan 28, 2017 21:09:31 GMT
10) While we know that a lot of "17" came from random things she'd done at that age (I don't remember where, but I remember seeing that the "stealing beers out of the trailer park" was about Avril and her brother, Matthew), I thought the song would have been about that guy she was dating before her record deal. The guy who she wrote Losing Grip about. Maybe? Maybe not?
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