slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Nov 11, 2018 19:53:40 GMT
Now I'm curious, why did you vote for Brexit? Many, many reasons but mostly the ability to make decisions about the UK in the UK, and not in European courts, immigration was a major factor - absolutely not against immigration but not at the rate the UK has seen and the freedom of movement is quite frankly dangerous and irresponsible, rights over our own fishing waters to help local fisherman, farmers not having to bow to ridiculous rules, the fact I (in fact nobody in the UK) elected those running the EU therefore they aren’t accountable for any decisions made. I did not however vote for the mess we’re currently seeing - we were given an option of leave or remain and 17 million leave votes should’ve seen a hard brexit. the bodged version we will inevitably end up with isn’t what anyone voted for. I agree with the notion that UK was significantly overburdened by the immigration from certain countries that became members of the freedom of movement - Poland, Baltics, Hungary, Bulgaria & Romania, I also agree with the fact that certain parts of the EU are not transparent enough, and should contain more direct oversight. I'd like to question you which specific rules are "ridiculous" that farmers need to follow? Also, I disagree with your idea that 48% remain + 52% leave = hard brexit. If we go on democratic principles, then this could arguably only justify a mandate to reduce ties with the EU. Literally this lol I cannot stress enough how alienated I feel by my generation; so much so that I feel out of touch lol - I use social media but I’m not obsessed over it, I don’t think the world owes me anything and I am of the view that hard work is the way to have a good living, not waiting for it to magically fall in your lap. I’m not afraid to voice my political views either (mostly centre-right + support and voted for brexit) but the exception is certainly with people in my age group; so many of them follow these left leaning views (and sometimes, very radical ones) and subscribe to such a ridiculous amount of political correctness and not to mention many of them find anyone whom has a different view to them as intolerable, so I don’t like to talk about political stuff with some of my friends - when I voted Conservative a few years ago my friends were pretty taken aback and spoke to me almost like I didn’t know what I was talking about, I thought it was crazy they all voted labour but I still respected it. And I don’t mean that in a holier than thou sense, but so many of people my age hate if you don’t agree with them. I literally know like one or two people around my age whom have similar views to me; you won’t find many people around our age with views which support some semblance of conservatism or libertarianism etc. Honestly some of my views do lean on the left but I won’t touch it with a ten foot pole. IMO the left has turned into something very, very ugly. It almost makes me feel as if those views are wrong when really all views should be voiced imo regardless of how they make you feel - it’s important everyone has their say. Don’t get me started on the entitlement or the other views the majority of them seem to support. I think it’s insane but I don’t think we should censor them. Just my two cents, probably a garbled mess lol Completely agree. Some of my friends were horrified i’d voted leave. A woman I work with unfriended me on Facebook over it lmao (oh no!!). I really don’t like how left leaning our generation is. Where i live is a solid Tory town but everyone around my age was voting labour, a mystery to me. I understand what you're criticizing, but you're doing the same thing as the accused here. I myself am left-leaning. I voted centre to centre-left parties/candidates plenty of times, that's sort of on the level of German Social Democrats or even Angela Merkel's CDU. I have already voted ordinary "left" one time, that's somewhere on the level of Labour under Corbyn. I am in favour of a stronger EU. My friends and family? they are all over the place, but probably more than 50% of them centre-right to right-wing, because cutting ties/relationships over politics isn't a reasonable choice, except if someone is practically an extremist, with whom you are in disagreement over some very important topics. Folk are different, they're raised different, they experience different stuff, and this makes them turn into different political views, and a healthy society handles differences with civility, not hostility, ultimately the democratic state itself can only function under cooperation of different factions. And, finally, my take on the EU - being from a country that, while not being a typical eastern bloc impoverished bananiya, still has some distance to catch up with the western countries, we have benefited greatly from the union - the entry requirements caused this land to undergo an institutional transformation that has made the country a slick, transparent, accountable entity, and the development funds enabled us to refurbish and upgrade our infrastructure immensely. After joining in 2004, construction sites began popping up left and right, with the signs saying things like "co-financed by the EU to the amount of 75%". Supremacy of EU courts caused a judicial westernisation - one famous case involved 18000 people who ceased to be citizens because of a bureaucratic mistake, and who were ignored by the state, including the national courts for 20 years until they sued the country in Strasbourg and won in 2012. EU also enabled unprecedented cross-border cooperation which has caused positive economic effects in many of the border regions on both sides, with, for example, one of our firms that produces aircraft building their production lines on our side of the border and on Italian side, and employing people regardless of nationality.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 19:55:48 GMT
Wow, Katy and Blizz in the UK and Bogo here in the US are solidifying my belief that the upcoming generation(s) will figure it out. I'm pleasantly surprised you guys feel this way. I'm a tad older and I've been been to the UK a hundred times for my job. London has changed so much that some places I don't recognize anymore. I would've voted yes to Brexit. I also wouldn't have said that before reading Katy'e and Blizz's post. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy here on BA's. SS, on the other hand, wants what the left wants here: Other peoples money to fix their problems. He calls it "co-financing." Sorry SS, people are sick of that.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Nov 11, 2018 20:13:08 GMT
Wow, Katy and Blizz in the UK and Bogo here in the US are solidifying my belief that the upcoming generation(s) will figure it out. I'm pleasantly surprised you guys feel this way. I'm a tad older and I've been been to the UK a hundred times for my job. London has changed so much that some places I don't recognize anymore. I would've voted yes to Brexit. I also wouldn't have said that before reading Katy'e and Blizz's post. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy here on BA's. SS, on the other hand, wants what the left wants here: Other peoples money to fix their problems. He calls it "co-financing." Sorry SS, people are sick of that. Well, H57, world isn't just individuals in their bubbles, but a society. You, I, and everybody between us were raised on a society and its infrastructure, built by the people before us, so we become greatly indebted to society solely by surviving childhood up to the age of 18. There are many insurance policies in this world, car insurance, house insurance, "death" insurance, these are generally handled by for-profit private enterprises. There are also non-profit, public insurances out there - infrastructure ministries/departments, military, police, firefighters, emergency, and so on. Some countries have also a broad healthcare and unemployment insurance model, others less so, and all of them rely on co-financing, because your monthly or annual fee that you pay wouldn't be able to cover, for example, damages of a house fire that resulted in a complete write-off.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 20:37:11 GMT
Yeah well, ok. You be happy in your country and I'll be happy in mine.
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katy
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Post by katy on Nov 11, 2018 20:39:37 GMT
Many, many reasons but mostly the ability to make decisions about the UK in the UK, and not in European courts, immigration was a major factor - absolutely not against immigration but not at the rate the UK has seen and the freedom of movement is quite frankly dangerous and irresponsible, rights over our own fishing waters to help local fisherman, farmers not having to bow to ridiculous rules, the fact I (in fact nobody in the UK) elected those running the EU therefore they aren’t accountable for any decisions made. I did not however vote for the mess we’re currently seeing - we were given an option of leave or remain and 17 million leave votes should’ve seen a hard brexit. the bodged version we will inevitably end up with isn’t what anyone voted for. I agree with the notion that UK was significantly overburdened by the immigration from certain countries that became members of the freedom of movement - Poland, Baltics, Hungary, Bulgaria & Romania, I also agree with the fact that certain parts of the EU are not transparent enough, and should contain more direct oversight. I'd like to question you which specific rules are "ridiculous" that farmers need to follow? Also, I disagree with your idea that 48% remain + 52% leave = hard brexit. If we go on democratic principles, then this could arguably only justify a mandate to reduce ties with the EU. Completely agree. Some of my friends were horrified i’d voted leave. A woman I work with unfriended me on Facebook over it lmao (oh no!!). I really don’t like how left leaning our generation is. Where i live is a solid Tory town but everyone around my age was voting labour, a mystery to me. I understand what you're criticizing, but you're doing the same thing as the accused here. I myself am left-leaning. I voted centre to centre-left parties/candidates plenty of times, that's sort of on the level of German Social Democrats or even Angela Merkel's CDU. I have already voted ordinary "left" one time, that's somewhere on the level of Labour under Corbyn. I am in favour of a stronger EU. My friends and family? they are all over the place, but probably more than 50% of them centre-right to right-wing, because cutting ties/relationships over politics isn't a reasonable choice, except if someone is practically an extremist, with whom you are in disagreement over some very important topics. Folk are different, they're raised different, they experience different stuff, and this makes them turn into different political views, and a healthy society handles differences with civility, not hostility, ultimately the democratic state itself can only function under cooperation of different factions. And, finally, my take on the EU - being from a country that, while not being a typical eastern bloc impoverished bananiya, still has some distance to catch up with the western countries, we have benefited greatly from the union - the entry requirements caused this land to undergo an institutional transformation that has made the country a slick, transparent, accountable entity, and the development funds enabled us to refurbish and upgrade our infrastructure immensely. After joining in 2004, construction sites began popping up left and right, with the signs saying things like "co-financed by the EU to the amount of 75%". Supremacy of EU courts caused a judicial westernisation - one famous case involved 18000 people who ceased to be citizens because of a bureaucratic mistake, and who were ignored by the state, including the national courts for 20 years until they sued the country in Strasbourg and won in 2012. EU also enabled unprecedented cross-border cooperation which has caused positive economic effects in many of the border regions on both sides, with, for example, one of our firms that produces aircraft building their production lines on our side of the border and on Italian side, and employing people regardless of nationality. The three crop rule for example, although now relaxed a little I believe, one of the worst (meaning farmers with land over a certain size had to grow more than 3 type of crop) - a rule for the sake of making a rule. The common agricultural policy another, encouraging farmers to clear land that isn’t suitable for farming for money, regardless of any wildlife that lives there. I’m lucky to live in a part of England with beautiful countryside and farms all over the place - impossible not to support them. 48% leave/52% remain would’ve seen us remain in the EU on the same terms we were on, so as far as I’m concerned 52% leave is a majority and that vote was for a hard brexit. However, like I said the mess we’re seeing now isn’t what anybody, leave or remain side, voted for. And to the second point, haha, their votes for Labour were a mystery to me however each to their own, I won’t be falling out with friends over it
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Nov 11, 2018 20:43:28 GMT
Yeah well, ok. You be happy in your country and I'll be happy in mine. Keep that snarky dismissiveness of yours to yourself, sauce man. I laid out my views in a civil manner, and I expect the same in reciprocity.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Nov 11, 2018 20:43:49 GMT
My best friend and my boyfriend are both liberals. There’s certainly more to friendships than political views lol We simply don’t discuss them or in the case of my boyfriend he says his views very politely and respectfully and we respect each other’s views even if we don’t agree.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Nov 11, 2018 21:06:36 GMT
I agree with the notion that UK was significantly overburdened by the immigration from certain countries that became members of the freedom of movement - Poland, Baltics, Hungary, Bulgaria & Romania, I also agree with the fact that certain parts of the EU are not transparent enough, and should contain more direct oversight. I'd like to question you which specific rules are "ridiculous" that farmers need to follow? Also, I disagree with your idea that 48% remain + 52% leave = hard brexit. If we go on democratic principles, then this could arguably only justify a mandate to reduce ties with the EU. I understand what you're criticizing, but you're doing the same thing as the accused here. I myself am left-leaning. I voted centre to centre-left parties/candidates plenty of times, that's sort of on the level of German Social Democrats or even Angela Merkel's CDU. I have already voted ordinary "left" one time, that's somewhere on the level of Labour under Corbyn. I am in favour of a stronger EU. My friends and family? they are all over the place, but probably more than 50% of them centre-right to right-wing, because cutting ties/relationships over politics isn't a reasonable choice, except if someone is practically an extremist, with whom you are in disagreement over some very important topics. Folk are different, they're raised different, they experience different stuff, and this makes them turn into different political views, and a healthy society handles differences with civility, not hostility, ultimately the democratic state itself can only function under cooperation of different factions. And, finally, my take on the EU - being from a country that, while not being a typical eastern bloc impoverished bananiya, still has some distance to catch up with the western countries, we have benefited greatly from the union - the entry requirements caused this land to undergo an institutional transformation that has made the country a slick, transparent, accountable entity, and the development funds enabled us to refurbish and upgrade our infrastructure immensely. After joining in 2004, construction sites began popping up left and right, with the signs saying things like "co-financed by the EU to the amount of 75%". Supremacy of EU courts caused a judicial westernisation - one famous case involved 18000 people who ceased to be citizens because of a bureaucratic mistake, and who were ignored by the state, including the national courts for 20 years until they sued the country in Strasbourg and won in 2012. EU also enabled unprecedented cross-border cooperation which has caused positive economic effects in many of the border regions on both sides, with, for example, one of our firms that produces aircraft building their production lines on our side of the border and on Italian side, and employing people regardless of nationality. The three crop rule for example, although now relaxed a little I believe, one of the worst (meaning farmers with land over a certain size had to grow more than 3 type of crop) - a rule for the sake of making a rule. The common agricultural policy another, encouraging farmers to clear land that isn’t suitable for farming for money, regardless of any wildlife that lives there. I’m lucky to live in a part of England with beautiful countryside and farms all over the place - impossible not to support them. 48% leave/52% remain would’ve seen us remain in the EU on the same terms we were on, so as far as I’m concerned 52% leave is a majority and that vote was for a hard brexit. However, like I said the mess we’re seeing now isn’t what anybody, leave or remain side, voted for. And to the second point, haha, their votes for Labour were a mystery to me however each to their own, I won’t be falling out with friends over it Regarding the three-crop rule, the law to provide funds only to farms abiding the 3-crop principle was created to satisfy ecological concerns - particularly over unbalancing ecosystems on a micro-scale because of potentially excessive homogenisation of fields. There was a vote on it conducted in the council of the EU, where agricultural ministers, 27 of them, voted on the law - and it passed unanimously, meaning that the British minister, formally the DEFRA secretary, who was at the time Owen Paterson of the conservatives, voted in favour. The other thing you're describing about is most likely this , which seems to be a law that should help farmers with poorer land quality, that went wrong, and was for some reason left unfixed for far too long. A 52% remain would possibly lead to a continuation of status-quo, but that still doesn't make it justifiable to go for a hard-brexit now, it merely shows that both of the variants lead to some pretty undemocratic manoeuvres.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 21:09:32 GMT
My best friend and my boyfriend are both liberals. There’s certainly more to friendships than political views lol We simply don’t discuss them or in the case of my boyfriend he says his views very politely and respectfully and we respect each other’s views even if we don’t agree. Which one became your boyfriend?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 21:16:46 GMT
Yeah well, ok. You be happy in your country and I'll be happy in mine. Keep that snarky dismissiveness of yours to yourself, sauce man. I laid out my views in a civil manner, and I expect the same in reciprocity. HaHa. Relax SS. Not going all Snark on you. But I get why you’re so defensive. It’s tough defending the EU’s left leaning policy (especially Merkel’s) when Sharia law is beating on the door. But don’t worry, we’ll fix it for you. Ciao
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Nov 11, 2018 21:19:47 GMT
Keep that snarky dismissiveness of yours to yourself, sauce man. I laid out my views in a civil manner, and I expect the same in reciprocity. HaHa. Relax SS. Not going all Snark on you. But I get why you’re so defensive. It’s tough defending the EU’s left leaning policy (especially Merkel’s) when Sharia law is beating on the door. Ciao Last time I checked you had a cascade of gun massacres and a bomb scare in a matter of weeks, not seeing such an alarming state of affairs anywhere in Western Europe.
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sam
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Post by sam on Nov 11, 2018 21:26:18 GMT
This was civil about an hour ago or so political discussion is welcome but please keep that crap out of it
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Nov 11, 2018 21:42:54 GMT
My best friend and my boyfriend are both liberals. There’s certainly more to friendships than political views lol We simply don’t discuss them or in the case of my boyfriend he says his views very politely and respectfully and we respect each other’s views even if we don’t agree. Which one became your boyfriend? Tom, the one who I was best friends with
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 21:51:08 GMT
HaHa. Relax SS. Not going all Snark on you. But I get why you’re so defensive. It’s tough defending the EU’s left leaning policy (especially Merkel’s) when Sharia law is beating on the door. Ciao Last time I checked you had a cascade of gun massacres and a bomb scare in a matter of weeks, not seeing such an alarming state of affairs anywhere in Western Europe. I agree Blizz. How uncivil can one get to use tragedy for PC points. You can do better than that, SS.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Nov 11, 2018 22:00:31 GMT
Which one became your boyfriend? Tom, the one who I was best friends with BogoGog I'm still expecting a comment on immortality from ya, heheh. Also, you're welcomed to give some input on your general political views, given that we've dove right into a debate here Last time I checked you had a cascade of gun massacres and a bomb scare in a matter of weeks, not seeing such an alarming state of affairs anywhere in Western Europe. I agree Blizz. How uncivil can one get to use tragedy for PC points. You can do better than that, SS. If people are dying because of a politically induced situation, then surely its political either way. Mass massacres in Schools, Universities, Churches, Military bases, concerts, bars, restaurants, and elsewhere every couple of weeks is not a natural occurrence, otherwise we'd have them just as regularly in countries such as Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Spain, UK, Japan, Korea, Italy, Poland, etc.
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