BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 3, 2016 17:30:15 GMT
I think it's crazy that after all these years, it's only been quite recently she's decided to talk about this and expect her contract to be broken. This is just crazy. I know that rape is difficult to prove and that a woman might be silent about this issue for years due to many reasons, but how can she "come out" after all these years and expect her contract with him to be broken because that's what she said that happened to her while working with him? I'm really not taking any sides in this issue, but she should have seen it. She should have talked about it a lot earlier. She shouldn't have been afraid of ANYTHING. She should have just come out a lot earlier and talk about it. She should have reported it immediately after the incident. She can't be expecting her contract to be broken, just because she said she was raped, emotionally abused and so on by him, during the period they were making music together, without any evidence whatsoever! I'm not trying to blame her for everything she has gone through and still goes through right now. I'm trying to speak from a completely objective perspective. I know that there is no way she lied to go through this, as she literally gets nothing out of it, like some have already said. But she should have been careful about saying it a lot later withouy ANY evidence and "demanding" her contract should be broken, just because of her allegations. Just a few thoughts... Well it's easy to say what she "should" have done. Of course she should have said something sooner. But victims rarely report things like this in a timely manner. It took years for the Bill Cosby allegations to come out. We can't exactly be like "Oh this is what she should have done" when we are not in her shoes. Unless you've been a victim of rape, I don't think anyone has the right to judge her for not speaking up sooner. Dr. Luke also threatened her as well as her family if she ratted him out, of course she wasn't going to be inclined to say anything if she was being threatened.
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ben545
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Kesha
Mar 3, 2016 19:33:08 GMT
Post by ben545 on Mar 3, 2016 19:33:08 GMT
If Dr Luke said to Kesha,"I will only employ you if you have sex with me." That is not rape, it's not very nice thing to do and everybody would agree that Dr Luke is abusing his authority as an employer but it would essentially be consensual sex and not rape. Rape is when someone forces themselves upon someone else physically against their will. Just thought I should clear that up for the Cookie Monster from the other thread. Is the Cookie Monster trying to wind me up....? because if he is it's working.
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Cookie Monster
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Post by Cookie Monster on Mar 4, 2016 15:54:20 GMT
If Dr Luke said to Kesha, "I will only employ you if you have sex with me." That is not rape, it's not very nice thing to do and everybody would agree that Dr Luke is abusing his authority as an employer but it would essentially be consensual sex and not rape. Rape is when someone forces themselves upon someone else physically against their will. Just thought I should clear that up for the Cookie Monster from the other thread. Is the Cookie Monster trying to wind me up....? because if he is it's working.
Eh wasn't trying to wind you up or anything. I'm just saying if that's what really happened, I think it's equivalent to rape.
everydayfeminism.com/2012/11/consensual-sex-and-rape/
myhealth.alberta.ca/Alberta/Pages/understanding-consent-for-sex.aspx
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ben545
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Post by ben545 on Mar 4, 2016 16:25:24 GMT
I see what you mean about the definition of sexual assault without consent. Yes, I would consider Dr Luke's insistence that having sexual relations with him would advance Kesha's career as sexual assault. Point taken. Sorry I ever doubted you Cookie Monster.
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ben545
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Post by ben545 on Mar 4, 2016 17:36:50 GMT
I stand by my opinion in the other thread as to what happened. Because Dr Luke insisted having sexual relations with him would help her career, this was sexual assault (according to everydayfeminism.com). Then when he drugged her and took advantage of her wherever that happened, this was rape. Everybody's entitled to an opinion and this is my opinion. Sorry I posted the above comment. I was trying to humour you all, it was supposed to be funny. Immature perhaps, but I love it when people come out with silly opinions about Avril sometimes. At least Becky saw the funny side.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on Mar 4, 2016 19:00:22 GMT
I don't think it even matters whether it was sexual assault or rape to us, both are disgusting and carry very high sentences. I don't think we need to get into which it was without knowing the proper facts, because no matter which, she should not have had to endure it (if it is true).
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 7, 2016 13:37:40 GMT
Thought this was really interesting, Kelly Clarkson speaks about Dr. Luke: www.mjsbigblog.com/kelly-clarkson-calls-dr-luke-a-liar-not-a-good-person-audio.htmShe says he's "not a good person" and that he lies a lot and "makes the artist look bad." This brings me back to Butch Walker's book when he alluded that Dr. Luke had ripped off TBDT to make GF and that Avril had called him on the phone crying about it. And of course we know Avril ended up getting sued by The Rubinoos because they thought Luke had copied their song. Even though the lawsuit ended up getting dropped, it still obviously wasn't a good thing for Avril. And if Luke did indeed rip off TBDT as well, she probably felt angry about him doing that to someone she had known and worked with for a long time, that she considered a friend. He really does seem like such a dick. I'll be interested if Avril has anything to say about her experiences working with him.
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ben545
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Kesha
Mar 7, 2016 16:01:57 GMT
Post by ben545 on Mar 7, 2016 16:01:57 GMT
An out of court settlement was made so that the lawsuit would be dropped. Not quite sure what you mean by saying Dr Luke ripped off TBDT to make GF. Do you mean Dr Luke ripped off The Rubinoos to make GF?
I think the guy obviously has a talent for what he does but socially he's not so adept. There's good and bad in everybody.
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Amanda
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Post by Amanda on Mar 7, 2016 16:40:24 GMT
What bothers me a lot is that Dr Luke removed the tweet in which there was a photo of Kesha ""Sleeping"" in the studio, which was publiced the day after or so that kesha acclaimed to hve been drugged down and woke up naked. And as soon as people found the tweet and started talking about it he took it down, if he had nothing to hide why delete it.
And it also makes me sad how its so hard to prove rape. And the level of the proof needs to be so high, almost a videotape of the rape.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 7, 2016 18:36:04 GMT
An out of court settlement was made so that the lawsuit would be dropped. Not quite sure what you mean by saying Dr Luke ripped off TBDT to make GF. Do you mean Dr Luke ripped off The Rubinoos to make GF?
I think the guy obviously has a talent for what he does but socially he's not so adept. There's good and bad in everybody. Avril worked with Butch first and TBDT (song) was one of the earliest they made for the album. It's kind of obvious Luke ripped off the cheerleader pop punk sound.
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ben545
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Kesha
Mar 7, 2016 18:57:15 GMT
Post by ben545 on Mar 7, 2016 18:57:15 GMT
An out of court settlement was made so that the lawsuit would be dropped. Not quite sure what you mean by saying Dr Luke ripped off TBDT to make GF. Do you mean Dr Luke ripped off The Rubinoos to make GF?
I think the guy obviously has a talent for what he does but socially he's not so adept. There's good and bad in everybody. Avril worked with Butch first and TBDT (song) was one of the earliest they made for the album. It's kind of obvious Luke ripped off the cheerleader pop punk sound. Oh right, I see what you mean. Don't you think the album would have sounded a bit disjointed if Luke carried on in a different style? I think he did a good job on that album it's just a shame about his behaviour towards his artists as far as I can make out. Just had a listen to "I could be your boyfriend" by The Rubinoos. I can't hear much of a similarity to GF myself. I will also be interested to hear about Avril's experiences working with him.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on Mar 7, 2016 21:22:34 GMT
Sorry I'm tired, not too sure why Avril would be crying on the phone to Butch about Dr. Luke ripping off TBDT when she wrote it with him and in the making of TBDT video she seems so happy with the beat? Can someone explain further?
While I completely agree that it's so unfair that the burden of proof is so high for rape, it absolutely has to be. You can't send someone to prison for such a serious offence without evidence. Unfortunately, there are people who lie about rape, and it's disgusting, but there's no easy solution.
I think Dr. Luke is probably just a manipulative prat. Like it's been suggested here, I guess he just took advantage of a young new popstar who didn't really know what she was doing/hadn't found her feet yet. Drugging her is absolutely disgusting though. I feel so sorry for her. Surely if she were to lie to get out of her contract, there are so many better stories to make up than this one? She's lost everything. I mean, would Sony make sure she's supervised when working with Dr. Luke now?
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 7, 2016 23:06:23 GMT
Avril worked with Butch first and TBDT (song) was one of the earliest they made for the album. It's kind of obvious Luke ripped off the cheerleader pop punk sound. Oh right, I see what you mean. Don't you think the album would have sounded a bit disjointed if Luke carried on in a different style? I think he did a good job on that album it's just a shame about his behaviour towards his artists as far as I can make out. Just had a listen to "I could be your boyfriend" by The Rubinoos. I can't hear much of a similarity to GF myself. I will also be interested to hear about Avril's experiences working with him. Really? You don't hear a similarity between "Hey! You! I wanna be your boyfriend" and "Hey hey you you/I want to be your girlfriend!" I understand why Luke ripped off the sound because it's probably what Avril/RCA wanted and he basically took Butch's sound and made it 10x better, but the way Butch spoke about the whole situation in his book made it seem like he had done it in a very underhanded way or something.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 7, 2016 23:07:41 GMT
Sorry I'm tired, not too sure why Avril would be crying on the phone to Butch about Dr. Luke ripping off TBDT when she wrote it with him and in the making of TBDT video she seems so happy with the beat? Can someone explain further? TBH I don't remember. Someone posted screenshots of the parts of Butch's book that talked about this at one point (I think on the old site) so I don't remember exactly what he wrote. He also never mentioned names and Avril was just referred to as "the girl" but it was assumed he meant Avril. And he said she was crying to him on the phone over the whole thing, why exactly I don't remember. Maybe someone can find those screenshots again. Edit: I did find this one: But I can't find the page where he says she was crying.
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ben545
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Post by ben545 on Mar 7, 2016 23:34:54 GMT
I don't know. Who the hell is Larry anyway? I've come across worse plagiarism than GF of the Rubinoos song. If anything it's closer to that "Hey Mickey!" tune as discussed above.
Even though I do find this case fascinating there's so much conflicting information from one report to the next. For example one article said the contract was for eight albums, another three. One article said she was drugged down on a beach, another in the studio. Some articles claim Kesha accused him of rape while others just sexual assault. It's hard to form an informed opinion because of this.
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