Becky
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Post by Becky on May 8, 2016 14:30:57 GMT
Because people with mental illnesses often can't think rationally a lot of the time and can act out of their control. We don't know the ins and outs, this man could be very ill. And without knowing if he is mentally ill or the severity of his potential illness, I really don't think we have the right to judge him or say things like 'grow the fuck up' and 'go to hell'. Bipolar could well be an excuse if he lost complete control, it is not just mild mood swings. I think what Bogo was saying is not to judge him based on a potential illness and that some people can live relatively normal lives, whereas other people really can't. People are not their mental illness, and others shouldn't judge them as such.
Whether he was mentally ill or not, his actions were callous and were certainly not involuntary - I am glad that he received 40 years in prison. I know 3 people who have bipolar disorder but they are not even close to being violent. Though each person should be evaluated individually, if one could make those decisions of killing his mother and defiling her body with household chemicals while being maniac - I think his violentness have a lot to do with his mental disease of course, but also along with his personality and morality.
Ofc, I'm not saying what he did was right whatsoever, just that telling someone who could potentially be very mentally ill to grow up is very insensitive. Doing household chores may have been incredibly difficult for him to do, just like getting out of bed each day may have been very difficult to do. He deserves prison, and if he's ill then he deserves treatment too. He could have had years worth of built up anger, resentment and frustration and in that moment could have snapped. We weren't there or at the court case, we have no idea why he did it. It's just a sensitive topic for a lot of people.
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Cookie Monster
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Post by Cookie Monster on May 8, 2016 14:38:10 GMT
Whether he was mentally ill or not, his actions were callous and were certainly not involuntary - I am glad that he received 40 years in prison. I know 3 people who have bipolar disorder but they are not even close to being violent. Though each person should be evaluated individually, if one could make those decisions of killing his mother and defiling her body with household chemicals while being maniac - I think his violentness have a lot to do with his mental disease of course, but also along with his personality and morality.
Ofc, I'm not saying what he did was right whatsoever, just that telling someone who could potentially be very mentally ill to grow up is very insensitive. Doing household chores may have been incredibly difficult for him to do, just like getting out of bed each day may have been very difficult to do. He deserves prison, and if he's ill then he deserves treatment too. He could have had years worth of built up anger, resentment and frustration and in that moment could have snapped. We weren't there or at the court case, we have no idea why he did it. It's just a sensitive topic for a lot of people.
Yup, it's a sensitive topic. I'll just say that 'normal' people with bipolar disorder are not potential murderers or criminals - they are suicidal.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on May 8, 2016 15:01:43 GMT
Ofc, I'm not saying what he did was right whatsoever, just that telling someone who could potentially be very mentally ill to grow up is very insensitive. Doing household chores may have been incredibly difficult for him to do, just like getting out of bed each day may have been very difficult to do. He deserves prison, and if he's ill then he deserves treatment too. He could have had years worth of built up anger, resentment and frustration and in that moment could have snapped. We weren't there or at the court case, we have no idea why he did it. It's just a sensitive topic for a lot of people.
Yup, it's a sensitive topic. I'll just say that 'normal' people with bipolar disorder are not potential murderers or criminals - they are suicidal.
Oh I wasn't at all saying they were Simply that with any mental illness, how it makes one person feel or act can be very different to how it makes another feel or act. We don't know if he has just the one illness, we don't know what he's been through, we don't know if he's been on medication and how he's reacted to it, we don't know anything about him really. I studied loss of control, diminished responsibility and insanity within the English Legal System and while English Law in these areas isn't very medical based, case law shows that people can do horrible things that they wouldn't normally ever do due to a range of illnesses and circumstances. I'm not saying bipolar disorder is why he did it, but it could definitely have had something to do with it. And we shouldn't judge someone for their actions who could potentially be very ill and without knowing many of the facts. We have no idea what he was going through or why he did that. Likewise he could just be a murderer. I find these topics very interesting and it's something I care about.
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StrongSweet
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Post by StrongSweet on May 8, 2016 17:19:17 GMT
Just a joke man from his name, those 100 words debate... lolol
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on May 8, 2016 21:10:22 GMT
Yes there are some very sick people out there that need help, not judgment or condemnation. The guy in my sig is a musician that has bipolar disorder and he takes medication for it and is a perfectly normal, very nice, amazing person. It pains me when people talk about bipolar disorder or other mental illnesses in a negative (and usually very uneducated and ignorant) way like that, because generally those people are just like anyone else, they just need treatment. Some of the most amazing people have mental illnesses, for example Sia has both bipolar disorder and depression. You would never know it just from looking at her because, yeah guess what, she is a normal person aside from her issues. So it really bothers me when people speak negatively about mental disorders or people who have them.
Wait, that was so random. I don't get why this have anything to do with Robert Nyon's murder of his mother? Did the guy in your sig 'struck his mother in the head with a bottle of cognac, stabbed her nine times in the back and then dumped household cleaning solutions on her dead body'?
And I'm sure nobody said anything negative about people with mental disorder? Avrilfan04 meant that having bipolar disorder is not an excuse for that murder or his 'childish' life.
LMAO I'm not saying what the guy did was right or even that having a mental illness exactly excuses it. I'm just saying that saying stuff like "grow the fuck up" is a really ignorant and insensitive thing to say about someone who might have a mental disorder because "growing up" has nothing to do with it. They need treatment.
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Jinkxx
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20 June 2008 & 04 May 2023 - The days I met Avril <3
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Post by Jinkxx on May 9, 2016 11:18:43 GMT
OMG never heard of both stories.. th dude changing his name is weird as hell. It's so crazy it's legal tho!! And the one killing his mom is insane.. I can not imagine such thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 12:01:28 GMT
So much concern over hurting a murderer's feelings.
But okay if we're really doing this, a friend of mine tells me to grow up every time we disagree about something. I just chalk it up to English not being her first language, and that she struggles with formulating a better way of expressing her disapproval and frustration. This is all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, so why not just let it go?
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Cookie Monster
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Post by Cookie Monster on May 9, 2016 15:21:20 GMT
Wait, that was so random. I don't get why this have anything to do with Robert Nyon's murder of his mother? Did the guy in your sig 'struck his mother in the head with a bottle of cognac, stabbed her nine times in the back and then dumped household cleaning solutions on her dead body'?
And I'm sure nobody said anything negative about people with mental disorder? Avrilfan04 meant that having bipolar disorder is not an excuse for that murder or his 'childish' life.
LMAO I'm not saying what the guy did was right or even that having a mental illness exactly excuses it. I'm just saying that saying stuff like "grow the fuck up" is a really ignorant and insensitive thing to say about someone who might have a mental disorder because "growing up" has nothing to do with it. They need treatment.
From what I see, Avrilfan04's point was that aside from having a bipolar disorder, he is one of those "adult child". And I too don't really see the connection between being heavily parent dependant and having bipolar disorder - but then, like Becky said, he might have more than one mental disorder other than bipolar disorder. Still, personally, I feel hell of a lot more sorry for his mother who had to put up with him for all those 39 years and than brutally murdered, than this 'poor' guy who may or may not be suffering from unstated mental disorders.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on May 9, 2016 15:32:07 GMT
So much concern over hurting a murderer's feelings. But okay if we're really doing this, a friend of mine tells me to grow up every time we disagree about something. I just chalk it up to English not being her first language, and that she struggles with formulating a better way of expressing her disapproval and frustration. This is all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, so why not just let it go? It's not about hurting a murderer's feelings, it's about telling someone with a mental illness to grow up, I guess it just touched a nerve. Obviously I doubt Avrilfan04 meant any disrespect, it's just that there's so much stigma around mental illnesses.
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Cookie Monster
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Post by Cookie Monster on May 9, 2016 16:01:16 GMT
So much concern over hurting a murderer's feelings. But okay if we're really doing this, a friend of mine tells me to grow up every time we disagree about something. I just chalk it up to English not being her first language, and that she struggles with formulating a better way of expressing her disapproval and frustration. This is all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, so why not just let it go? It's not about hurting a murderer's feelings, it's about telling someone with a mental illness to grow up, I guess it just touched a nerve. Obviously I doubt Avrilfan04 meant any disrespect, it's just that there's so much stigma around mental illnesses.
But I doubt Avrilfan04 meant to say that people with mental illness need to grow up. This man is a 39-year old heavily parent-dependant adult who constantly fought with his mother because he didn't want do the chores etc., and this abnormally 'childish' life (I think this is Avrilfan04's point), you see, have nothing to do with him having bipolar disorder. Did Kurt Cobain live like this? Did Vincent Van Gogh? No. Bipolar disorder is not a developmental disorder. And the articles doesn't state any mental disorders of him other than bipolar.
So my opinion? You guys seem to be very interested in combating stereotypes of people suffering from mental disorder, but the thing is that doesn't have anything to do with what Avrilfan04 said. And this was my point from the very start.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 16:02:59 GMT
So much concern over hurting a murderer's feelings. But okay if we're really doing this, a friend of mine tells me to grow up every time we disagree about something. I just chalk it up to English not being her first language, and that she struggles with formulating a better way of expressing her disapproval and frustration. This is all about giving people the benefit of the doubt, so why not just let it go? It's not about hurting a murderer's feelings, it's about telling someone with a mental illness to grow up, I guess it just touched a nerve. Obviously I doubt Avrilfan04 meant any disrespect, it's just that there's so much stigma around mental illnesses. Yes, I know. I have an anxiety disorder. I get it. But we're talking about someone who killed his own Mum, and I think it's the wrong time and place to get upset about social stigmas. And this is coming from someone with a mental illness.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on May 9, 2016 16:12:21 GMT
Alright sorry, I've just gotten over anxiety and depression recently, it's still a raw and sensitive subject. I guess I overreacted, hearing things like just grow up etc. is still fresh.
I won't say any more.
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avriladdicted7
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Post by avriladdicted7 on May 17, 2016 16:31:44 GMT
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