eismann
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Post by eismann on Jul 2, 2016 20:57:05 GMT
I think some reactions from both sides have been sad. Some leave voters are using it as an excuse to air racist views and some remain voters are using it as an excuse to generalise all leave voters and throw insults out all over the place. I got called "brainless" by a colleague for voting leave despite having a full list of sensible reasons why I did. The reaction to it all has been awful. If I may ask, what are the reasons you voted leave? Cause I dont really see lots of reasons to go out of EU
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katy
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Post by katy on Jul 3, 2016 12:10:08 GMT
I think some reactions from both sides have been sad. Some leave voters are using it as an excuse to air racist views and some remain voters are using it as an excuse to generalise all leave voters and throw insults out all over the place. I got called "brainless" by a colleague for voting leave despite having a full list of sensible reasons why I did. The reaction to it all has been awful. If I may ask, what are the reasons you voted leave? Cause I dont really see lots of reasons to go out of EU I've coped this from one of my posts on another forum so if any of it isn't relevant that'll be why haha! but these were most of my reasons - Cameron's deal doesn't even scratch the surface on the changes we actually need within the eu and it's not even legally binding - "well everyone said they wouldn't object" isn't convincing enough for me obviously we're outside of the schengen area but once a country grants somebody citizenship we have no choice but to allow them to come here if they want to. I'm not against immigration by any means but now more than ever we need to have a say over who comes here, immigration can't continue at the rate it is at the moment and I don't see anything wrong with being able to pick who we do and don't let it and not just be forced to take anybody the GDP the EU accounts for has gone down 15% since we joined and to me any temporary changes to our economy if we leave are irrelevant when we're already in a declining trade bloc. we sell more to the EU than we buy from them so there's no reason for them to impose massive tariffs or blocks on trade - any of that would literally be out of spite and affect them just as much if not more than it does us the national security arguments are ridiculous - NATO keeps us safe not the EU and there's zero reason for the EU to stop sharing info about terror plots with us - it's in everyone's interests to share info i see no reason for us to be governed by unelected officials in Brussels - if we don't like what the tories, labour, whoever are doing we vote them out, nobody can even name anyone making up rules that affect us in Brussels let alone vote them out voting to remain is basically telling Brussels to push ahead with their ridiculous European superstate, army etc. the whole things a failed project, a trade bloc in decline, with the migrant crisis there's no doubt some terrorists were smuggled in and with the schengen zone we have absolutely no way of tracking where they are, bailing out countries who have used the euro, if we leave we'll see referendums in other countries too, it's only a matter of time until the whole thing falls apart I have a tonne of reasons haha, the TTIP deal we're being kept in the dark over, destroying our fishing trade (see protest on the Thames the other day), ridiculous list of compliance laws for farmers, we're constantly told "oh the EU protect maternity pay and holiday!!" when in fact the UK's laws are already above the ones set by the EU (hence why some of our biggest trade unions are backing brexit), Lord Rose (chairman of Britain in Europe) admitted wages would go up outside the EU, massive youth unemployment within the EU (Greece, Spain etc) yet we're meant to believe it's the EU protecting our economy and offering us better prospects, I could go on forevs but I'm on my phone so I'll stop haha
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katy
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Post by katy on Mar 29, 2019 8:21:04 GMT
3 years down the line and on the day we should be leaving the EU, the last 3 years has, no matter what way you voted, shown our political system to be the farce it really is. Chasing their own careers and playing party politics rather than carrying out the biggest mandate parliament has ever been given. Appalling all round.
.....#rantover
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Apr 19, 2019 21:25:25 GMT
If I may ask, what are the reasons you voted leave? Cause I dont really see lots of reasons to go out of EU I've coped this from one of my posts on another forum so if any of it isn't relevant that'll be why haha! but these were most of my reasons - Cameron's deal doesn't even scratch the surface on the changes we actually need within the eu and it's not even legally binding - "well everyone said they wouldn't object" isn't convincing enough for me obviously we're outside of the schengen area but once a country grants somebody citizenship we have no choice but to allow them to come here if they want to. I'm not against immigration by any means but now more than ever we need to have a say over who comes here, immigration can't continue at the rate it is at the moment and I don't see anything wrong with being able to pick who we do and don't let it and not just be forced to take anybody the GDP the EU accounts for has gone down 15% since we joined and to me any temporary changes to our economy if we leave are irrelevant when we're already in a declining trade bloc. we sell more to the EU than we buy from them so there's no reason for them to impose massive tariffs or blocks on trade - any of that would literally be out of spite and affect them just as much if not more than it does us the national security arguments are ridiculous - NATO keeps us safe not the EU and there's zero reason for the EU to stop sharing info about terror plots with us - it's in everyone's interests to share info i see no reason for us to be governed by unelected officials in Brussels - if we don't like what the tories, labour, whoever are doing we vote them out, nobody can even name anyone making up rules that affect us in Brussels let alone vote them outvoting to remain is basically telling Brussels to push ahead with their ridiculous European superstate, army etc. the whole things a failed project, a trade bloc in decline, with the migrant crisis there's no doubt some terrorists were smuggled in and with the schengen zone we have absolutely no way of tracking where they are, bailing out countries who have used the euro, if we leave we'll see referendums in other countries too, it's only a matter of time until the whole thing falls apart I have a tonne of reasons haha, the TTIP deal we're being kept in the dark over, destroying our fishing trade (see protest on the Thames the other day), ridiculous list of compliance laws for farmers, we're constantly told "oh the EU protect maternity pay and holiday!!" when in fact the UK's laws are already above the ones set by the EU (hence why some of our biggest trade unions are backing brexit), Lord Rose (chairman of Britain in Europe) admitted wages would go up outside the EU, massive youth unemployment within the EU (Greece, Spain etc) yet we're meant to believe it's the EU protecting our economy and offering us better prospects, I could go on forevs but I'm on my phone so I'll stop haha 1) "trade bloc in decline" - the reason why EU's share of world economy is falling isn't because of some significant stagnation or decline of the EU, but because of the so-called third world, or developing and undeveloped countries catching up. Complete Western economic supremacy was a temporary feature, not an eternal certainty. 2) what keeps UK safe is a very complex question. On the surface, yes, NATO is the most straightforward answer, because NATO ensures direct military aid against threats such as Russia, etc. Unfortunately, NATO doesn't reach south of the tropic of Cancer, hence why UK couldn't rely on NATO support in the Falklands. But security is not merely from direct military threats - Britain also needs a relatively peaceful, friendly and stable continent, because it represents its military as well as economic background - and this holds true even more for the continental countries. While a war in e.g. ex-Yugoslavia didn't have an obvious negative effect on UK apart from some refugees, a wider instability in the region would have been very problematic. EU is a major element in aiding at maintaining relative peace down here in the Balkans, mainly through economic and infrastructure incentives and with providing the states a politico-economic 'luxury' goal of becoming a 'true European country'. 3) Brussels is voted in - you vote for EU parliament, which chooses its "prime-minister" - the main Commissioner. The other commissioners ("ministers") are appointed by member states' governments - each appoints one. The council of the EU (wannabe senate or upper house) is comprised of heads of member states, because its made to ensure that each member state gets a veto vote. The main element that makes the EU feel more distant is the fact that other member states have an influence on who is in the "EU government", and if some German politician becomes the leader he is most likely rather unknown to anybody outside the Germanosphere. There are also issues with those "government-appointed commissioners", and the fact that the parliament doesn't have as much relative power as they tend to do in other parliamentary representative democracies, while the Commission has a bit too much authority. To wrap this up, I agree that EU feels (and is) distant many times, and it has a plethora of issues, including with how the Eurozone and ECB are operated and manipulated (Austerity dogma persisting at the demand of Germany, Netherlands, & co.), but its also a mechanism that undoubtedly aids the continent in integrating economies, serves as a medium of political communication between many countries that were historically hostile, and is the most prominent actor in aiding former the East Bloc in modernising and westernising politically, technologically and economically - there are many issues still, but there are also many positive outcomes that came with the assertiveness of the European project. Ultimately, few things can be solved on a national level in the today's globally interdependent world, personally I see your Labour party and Corbyn as having the best ideas regarding economic issues, but trying to run a "social democracy in one country" is an economic death sentence if companies will be able to escape over the channel into less worker-friendly but cheaper countries. EU may be a ship that is hard to turn into another direction, but that also holds true for the USA - but once it does, its enormous clout is able to transform the global economy in profound and concrete ways
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