Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 4, 2017 3:05:08 GMT
This topic has been on my mind recently. With all the talk of AL6 and Avril's new record label, I've heard a lot of people say that they hope Avril won't receive interference from her label this time. I've admitted in other threads that I'm not the most knowledgeable Avril fan out there, so I was hoping we could all dig deeper into this subject to give me a better idea of what this means. My favorite Avril album is Goodbye Lullaby, but I often hear criticism that it had too much label interference, resulting in "pop" songs like What The Hell and Smile. This confuses me for a few reasons. First of all, I consider Avril to primarily be a pop artist with a dash of rock flavor mixed in in general, so the inclusion of those kinds of pop songs isn't weird to me. Before I became a real Avril fan a few months ago, Smile was one of the first post-TBDT Avril songs I heard and my immediate thought was that it's the most Avril song ever. Second of all, I think WTH and Smile are really good, so I don't see the problem. I'm not the kind of person who listens to albums from start to finish in one session though, so maybe that's another reason why I don't mind their inclusion. I also get the sense that Avril really likes those songs too based on interviews and her live performances of them. My last few points have more to do with the label interference topic though. I guess I'm wondering why songs like WTH and Smile are singled out when, in my limited knowledge of Avril's music production process, it seems like most or all of her most popular songs received some level of interference. Some cynics that I've seen online go as far as to claim that Let Go was partially manufactured by the record company to be an "anti-Britney Spears" album. Here are the top 5 most popular Avril songs on Spotify: I think it's fair to say that all of these are the result of outside interference (not completely sure about Girlfriend), which leads me to ask this question: if the songs are good, does interference matter? My last two points are linked together. When I became an Avril fan, I obsessively watched all of her interviews on YouTube, and noticed that she said that her self-titled album had less interference than before, and consequently has fewer radio hits. To be fair, I don't think AL is as bad as some people say, but I think it's fair to say that the album disappointed most people. I also get the sense that Hello Kitty was her pet project, and as much as I defend the song (and I will make sure it beats every other AL song in the Song Survivor event ) it has a lot of issues. This leads to my final point: many creative types thrive on limitations imposed by higher-ups, especially in collaborative media like movies and music. Is it possible that Avril needs general direction/guidance to channel her talent properly? Don't get me wrong, Sony screwed her pretty hard in other areas (like promotion, music distribution and corny forced product placement in her music videos) but how much of the blame do they deserve for AL's questionable quality? This thread is all over the place and I'll hopefully edit it later to make it all flow better when I'm feeling better, but... TLDR: How much does label interference matter regarding Avril's music? Do you care if a song is forced if it still sounds good? Does Avril possibly benefit from interference?
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katy
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Post by katy on Apr 4, 2017 7:18:13 GMT
I do question the amount of interference on GL when the songs she "didn't want on the album" are all she chose to play on tour. That's my only thoughts on it really. As long as I like the songs I'm not overly concerned where they came from.
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Sarah93
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Post by Sarah93 on Apr 4, 2017 7:25:44 GMT
Well, this is an interesting thread Neil I think the point is not song by song, but it is about the entire album. Besides, label interference is never good for an artist imo, it doesn't let the artist express him/herself at his/her fullest. The problem with AL is that it's not a cohesive album imo. There are some really good songs, don't get me wrong, but they're not good put together imo. They even made some really bad single choices imo. Let Go was not built as an anti-Britney album, the label might have pushed her skater-tomboy image towards that, but not the album.
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Jinkxx
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Post by Jinkxx on Apr 4, 2017 9:59:29 GMT
Well, this is an interesting thread Neil I think the point is not song by song, but it is about the entire album. Besides, label interference is never good for an artist imo, it doesn't let the artist express him/herself at his/her fullest. The problem with AL is that it's not a cohesive album imo. There are some really good songs, don't get me wrong, but they're not good put together imo. They even made some really bad single choices imo. Let Go was not built as an anti-Britney album, the label might have pushed her skater-tomboy image towards that, but not the album. Fun fact: Before Avril came out with Complicated and Sk8er Boi, I was a Britney fan. But then I became an Avril fan and still am
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 4, 2017 12:01:34 GMT
The fans' issue with GL is that WTH and Smile do not match the rest of the album or Avril's vision for the album. A lot of fans love WTH and Smile on their own, I do too, but they would have fit better on a record like TBDT. GL was supposed to be a stripped down acoustic based album full of personal songs about her divorce. WTH and Smile don't fit that at all. It breaks up the flow of the album IMO. At least songs like WYWH and ILY, while still very pop oriented, suit the intended nature of the album much more.
Some artists do thrive more when given a direction by the label, but I've never found that to be the case with Avril. I think she does some of her best work when they let her do what she wants. At the very least, if they need to guide her a bit they both need to be on the same page and make sure the direction actually is what suits the album best.
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sam
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Post by sam on Apr 4, 2017 12:10:09 GMT
Well, at a first glance it seems (at least to me) that BMG will treat her fairly - but only time will tell if this is true or not. It's a real shame as Avril has so much potential and her past labels just kept forcing songs on her
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In Wonderland
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Post by In Wonderland on Apr 4, 2017 12:22:52 GMT
I have been looking for her blog post about the rant iver rca. But can't find it. Was that the post that she shared with BA? Or on her site?
"Radio's very rhythmic and urban and dance today. I think they wanted me to do something more like that, but that's not what my vision was for this album".
"The biggest challenge and only challenge of this album was my record company," says Lavigne. "I found myself in a situation on my fourth record with a bunch of people at the label who I didn't know, and they're coming in on my project and saying, 'Here's what we think you need to do for your record,' and giving me their vision. And radio's so rhythmic/dance-driven right now, and that's not where I was going with this record. So I had to fight and say no, but… I ultimately made the record I wanted to."
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 4, 2017 12:30:04 GMT
Interesting comments so far. It really shows how much of a casual music fan I am compared to you guys lol. I'm the annoying guy who listens to songs individually rather than weighing the album composition. Maybe that'll change with AL6 since it'll be the first new Avril album I go into as a fan . I already heard WTH and Smile before listening to the rest of GL and by then I already really liked them so that might factor in to my willingness to overlook the tonal shift those two songs bring to the album. Who knows though - it could just be me being a filthy casual
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In Wonderland
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Post by In Wonderland on Apr 4, 2017 12:53:01 GMT
Neil found it! Thank you to that someone out there who saved this in a web archive, because Avril's peps did not From Avril Hey Everyone! How’s it going?? So… I just wanted to fill you guys in…I’m done with my 4th record!!! Well, actually I have been done for a year… and now my record company have finally decided to release it. OMG..How nice! Thanks guys. I have been dying to get back out on the road and do what I love the most… PLAY MUSIC. I know you guys have been waiting for a long time…..and so have I, but not by choice. I have been sitting with this record for a year now. It’s really special to me. I have produced a couple tracks alone for the first time, written solo, with friends, I have pushed myself and I feel proud. In saying all that, this has been a really difficult record for me to create and to release. Not only is this the most meaningful and special record I have written, it is sincere, honest and close to my heart. But for the first time I experienced a bunch of bureaucratic BS. People do their best work when they are doing what they want, love and is natural for them, not when you are forcing them to be something that they are not. From the beginning of my career my message has always been to be yourself and stand up for what you believe in. Follow your heart. My first single off this record is called: “What The Hell”. This song is the least personal song to me off this album. It’s a fun and funny anthem. It has a broad message about personal freedom. It is the most pop track on the record. I am shooting the video in 2 weeks and it will be out in January. I have been extremely busy designing Abbey Dawn and taking the line internationally for the first time, establishing “The Avril Lavigne Foundation” and focusing on my personal happiness and health. Balance! Love you guys! xo Avril
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 4, 2017 13:28:22 GMT
Neil found it! Thank you to that someone out there who saved this in a web archive, because Avril's peps did not From Avril Hey Everyone! How’s it going?? So… I just wanted to fill you guys in…I’m done with my 4th record!!! Well, actually I have been done for a year… and now my record company have finally decided to release it. OMG..How nice! Thanks guys. I have been dying to get back out on the road and do what I love the most… PLAY MUSIC. I know you guys have been waiting for a long time…..and so have I, but not by choice. I have been sitting with this record for a year now. It’s really special to me. I have produced a couple tracks alone for the first time, written solo, with friends, I have pushed myself and I feel proud. In saying all that, this has been a really difficult record for me to create and to release. Not only is this the most meaningful and special record I have written, it is sincere, honest and close to my heart. But for the first time I experienced a bunch of bureaucratic BS. People do their best work when they are doing what they want, love and is natural for them, not when you are forcing them to be something that they are not. From the beginning of my career my message has always been to be yourself and stand up for what you believe in. Follow your heart. My first single off this record is called: “What The Hell”. This song is the least personal song to me off this album. It’s a fun and funny anthem. It has a broad message about personal freedom. It is the most pop track on the record. I am shooting the video in 2 weeks and it will be out in January. I have been extremely busy designing Abbey Dawn and taking the line internationally for the first time, establishing “The Avril Lavigne Foundation” and focusing on my personal happiness and health. Balance! Love you guys! xo Avril This made me laugh. "Here's my first single. It's not that personal to me but whatevs."
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sliperslip
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Post by sliperslip on Apr 4, 2017 16:18:41 GMT
IMO when there is song that is disliked in general by fandom, we automatically blame her label and when the song is likable by fandom we are always like "thanks god Avri fought for this song to be on album". Everybody in the industry have a lot of hard times/disagreement with the label and yes it's must be really hard for an artist. I see Avril as a strong woman who will always fight for her beliefs and she not afraid to speak up to label bosses ect., she and her label always met half of the way, but sometimes maybe wouldn't be that bad to just maybe try to work with someone your label suggests(it turned out great for LG,UMS,TBDT), I have hard time to fully believe L.A.Reid tried to change her style that hard for GL ect.like c'mon we all know Avril is not typical and she doesn't fit in that industry box, bet her previous labels knew that. Ok dont' kill me now, but sometimes like really rare it just crossed my mind that maybe Avril wants to be everything like she wants even if something doesn't have sense and when someone tell her that that doesn't sound good she automatically say her label try to suppress her art, we know how we humans work when we are making something and we work long for it and then we are so proud of it, and than someone comes and say "but thats not good"our ego is a little bit crushed and first reaction is "eh this person just try to destroy my hard work". I believe a lot of us were sometimes so sure in our way, even if everybody around us were telling us different, but sometimes turns out that those people were right. And I do believe if under the BMG she releases her first single as something upbeat, playfull, like she used to, and if fandom is not gonna like it we will be "i thought BMG is better than Epic, but they made her to the same shit again", but if single/album turns out to what we all expect to be "thanks god she is not with EPIC anymore, BMG gave her freedom". And nobody can convince me that her lead singles from TBDT till now were not made for the radio, they were purposely made for the radio.C'mon now. The only thing I rly wonder is why she always work with her bf and bf's friends on the album, I know when you are in love everythign is different, but sometimes she sould ask her self "if I wasn't in love with that person, would I like for him and his friends to work on my album" If the song is that good, strong lyrics, great production the song is gonna make it on the radio without doubt no matter what is popular and what is radio playing atm. I'm the one who usually blame her label for her fails, but if she "fail" with BMG I'm gonna start to blame her. Labels are companies and they are the same as any other companies, they give you money and you go and do the work they expect from you, they gave her millions and how can one expect to do whatever you want, they gave you money to do whatever they want. If she really believe in her rejected songs/art that hard, why doesn't she make album on her own without label,she has enough money for it, she has enough money for the promo,so...out there are pople who spent their whole net worth for one album that they truly believe in it, release me album full of HK songs, but just show me that you believe in them and you stand behind them and I will enjoy and love every single one. Constantly blaming her label since 2009 is just lame excuse for failure to me now. (when Eminem faild his album, he blamed himself and not the label, not the producers) Own it, before the GL and AL dropped she was talking in the interviews how much she loves those albums, how personal they are,how they represent her, but in the same moment when public didn't grab it, when people started to say it's a fail, at the same moment she went "thats my label folks". Is she is gonna do this for AL6, I'm gonna book first flight to LA and ring at her door and ask wtf batch. Somewhere deep down in me I believe she signed with BMG, just because they are small label and Avril is their biggest artist atm, and they will let her do whatever the fuck she wants to and nobody will say "NO!" to her. If they would saying her "YES" constantly when she was making LG, the album wouldn't turn out as it is, so hearing "no" from time to time is not that bad. But ofc those are all just my assumptions I'm really wondering what the promo is gonna be like(can BMG afford the big promo? Does Avril wnats to go "BIG" again), if somebody is gonna do something about her social media and why don't they work on her social media engagements before the album drops. The bottom line is we can all just assume what is happening bts but we will never know for sure
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 4, 2017 16:36:42 GMT
You should have made this thread instead of me slip
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 20:15:15 GMT
The fandom is pretty split when it comes to what songs we want to hear from Avril. IMO Avril herself has always had those two sides of herself. The side that wants to make really fun, up beat, catchy songs, and the other side that wants to make stripped down emotional ballads and mid-tempo songs. IMO the whole record label issue can be solved by compromises from BOTH sides. Having Avril sit with hit makers to write a good catchy well made singles, but having it match the tone and sound of the record that she has already envisioned/created.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 4, 2017 22:35:57 GMT
^ That is pretty much what happened with her first 3 albums, especially LG. It's only the last 2 albums where the hitmaker songs ended up not matching the rest of the album and they also sounded like very generic and cheaply produced Disney pop songs, which isn't her style.
I do think Avril likes to surround herself with yes men, but I can also understand her frustrations with labels after dealing with it for 2 albums. This next album sounds like it will be very personal. It doesn't deserve to get fucked up with more meaningless cheap pop hits.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 5, 2017 3:04:00 GMT
Devil's advocate: Bringing it back to Goodbye Lullaby, where's the entry point for new fans if WTH/Smile aren't on the radio? I don't think those songs are cheap/meaningless if they help bring in new fans/remind old fans that Avril still exists. Especially if they're like WTH/Smile which are uniquely Avril. HTNGU is a different story because it was the 8 billionth "YOLO/live while we're young" pop song to hit the market that year.
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