BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Feb 11, 2019 18:06:37 GMT
I joined ABA in 2006. When TBDT leaked, we all shared files on the forum - as well as the files for b-sides. It feels kind of hypocritical that now members aren't even allowed to share links via pm's. I also feel it's funny I need to log onto some Spanish website where I don't understand anything - to get the links. In the end, I understand that the times have changed. But wanted just to remind that one point Bandaids was the number one source of anything Avril-related. We've come far, but is it really for the better?! This is the thing that people need to understand. The old BA was a privately owned website. They probably had rules regarding leaks and illegal material, but they were probably pretty relaxed about ever enforcing it, which is why you used to be able to find that stuff easily on the old BA. The new BA is not a website - it's a forum that is hosted via another website, therefore we have to follow that website's rules. ProBoards does not allow its member forums to post illegal material, download links, etc. It isn't the decision of BA/BA staff to do this - it's ProBoards. If we want to keep being able to host the site via ProBoards, we have to follow whatever rules they have. Unless someone wants to legit make a 2.0 of the BA website and have it be a privately owned website again, this is the way we have to do things, by hosting a forum via another website.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Feb 11, 2019 18:11:32 GMT
WITH ALL MY RESPECT I don't understand this post. I mean, this is a forum, people will talk, people will always have an opinion. I understand that you had to make rules, but some of them are really unnecessary. I get it, if the album leaks, you don't want to if anybody will share the links in the forum. But via PM? Why not? I said this, but if someone wants to buy the album will buy it anyway. I'm not sure if we really need moderators or not. For me it seems also unnecessary. What I can really understand is the yesterday drama over here with the unreleased songs. Like, a person has it, if someone or some people (including me) wants to collect money and buy it, why the hell not? Maybe these songs will never see the light, and we are courious about them. Also the snippet fiasco, really??? These are just 15 sec snippets, recorded via a stupid phone. Also, if you fed up with people who violated the forum rules what you made up, and then harassing you via PM, WHY YOU DON'T BAN THEM OR GIVE THEM A WARNING? I had a breakdown and I got a 2 weeks ban for that.......... You can ban me for haveing a bad moment then you can easily ban other members also. I really hope you guys wont shut down the forum because YOU want to leave.
I'm pretty sure everything will be OK after the album release tho.
I'll agree with you that I don't understand the PM part either, maybe ProBoards has a way of monitoring material sent through PMs, I don't know. As for posting the stuff publicly, it's illegal and against ProBoards rules. Nobody says you can't talk about the unreleased songs or gather up money to buy them, but it should be done outside BA. As again - it violates PROBOARDS rules. ProBoards can have whatever silly rules they like - they can make us stand on our heads and do the electric slide if they want. As long as we are using their website, we follow their rules. These rules aren't made by BA or BA staff - they are made by ProBoards. I do agree with you though that I think we need to start taking more action in cases of disrespectful behavior, like give out warnings or just permaban people who share links even after we've asked not to.
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NowISee
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Post by NowISee on Feb 11, 2019 18:12:07 GMT
I joined ABA in 2006. When TBDT leaked, we all shared files on the forum - as well as the files for b-sides. It feels kind of hypocritical that now members aren't even allowed to share links via pm's. I also feel it's funny I need to log onto some Spanish website where I don't understand anything - to get the links. In the end, I understand that the times have changed. But wanted just to remind that one point Bandaids was the number one source of anything Avril-related. We've come far, but is it really for the better?! This is the thing that people need to understand. The old BA was a privately owned website. They probably had rules regarding leaks and illegal material, but they were probably pretty relaxed about ever enforcing it, which is why you used to be able to find that stuff easily on the old BA. The new BA is not a website - it's a forum that is hosted via another website, therefore we have to follow that website's rules. ProBoards does not allow its member forums to post illegal material, download links, etc. It isn't the decision of BA/BA staff to do this - it's ProBoards. If we want to keep being able to host the site via ProBoards, we have to follow whatever rules they have. Unless someone wants to legit make a 2.0 of the BA website and have it be a privately owned website again, this is the way we have to do things, by hosting a forum via another website. Ok, I wasn't aware of that. That's a real pitty though. Leaks and other un-official material are so important for a fansite. Maybe it is a good idea to start think about other options.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Feb 11, 2019 18:13:16 GMT
I’ll post what I was going to say in the other thread here - Honestly I think half of the “bad atmosphere” (I’ve used “s because I don’t see it myself in terms of the forums as a whole) is literally just a language barrier sometimes. I read posts sometimes from people who’s first language obviously isn’t english and the way it’s worded can come over as rude or dismissive to someone who is a native English speaker. I completely get that (and complete respect to anyone here posting in English when it’s not your first language - I know I couldn’t even put a sentence together in 99% of languages lol nevermind a whole post that makes perfect sense!!), but some people do react badly when they take it the wrong way. I dunno just something I’ve noticed a few times recently. Not really anything that can be done about that though other than everyone being a bit less keen to jump down people’s throats. The whole snippet fiasco will die down soon anyway - so many people joined the forum purely to ask for the snippets. I get regular members will find it annoying but it’s to be expected - she’s a mainstream artist and people will want to hear things asap. I think the moderators dealt with it well explaining it’s against the rules to post links here but all the posts like “Ergh go away so annoying” is a bit off, some people will get the snippets and leave but others might become regular members so I thought it was sad for people to be so unwelcoming lol. Ignore it and let the staff deal. On the rudeness to staff issue there’s really no excuse and honestly unless a ridiculous decision is made by a staff member or a staff member is rude themselves (something I’ve never seen here but saw a lot on the old BA) I don’t think anyone would take issue with you just banning the member(s) involved. You guys do a fab job here, with, as far as I’m aware, not even half the benefits the old forum staff had with regards to contact with Avril, you don’t get an awful lot out of the time you put in and I know most of us are really thankful for it. Yeah, one part of seeming rudeness is the mis-match because of second-language issues. I try to be extra careful when debating because I don't want to sound like some pompous snobbish bastard, and yet even then sometimes feel by the reaction of who I'm responding to that I failed to successfully deliver my sentiment. I'd also like to add that only seeing some random avatars and a bunch of text makes it easy to forget that you're talking to another person at times - and hence sometimes you don't deploy your full mental capacities when you write down a snarkish or a trollish comment. Now, despite the fact that I expressed multiple times that I don't see sharing 'mere' snippets as something 'illegal', nor do I see 'threat' of a shutdown as an appropriate response, I also support the mods and the admins in principle - they are good folk, fun peeps, even though we don't necessarily share the same ideas over some stuff.
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Erik
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Post by Erik on Feb 11, 2019 18:14:10 GMT
WITH ALL MY RESPECT I don't understand this post. I mean, this is a forum, people will talk, people will always have an opinion. I understand that you had to make rules, but some of them are really unnecessary. I get it, if the album leaks, you don't want to if anybody will share the links in the forum. But via PM? Why not? I said this, but if someone wants to buy the album will buy it anyway. I'm not sure if we really need moderators or not. For me it seems also unnecessary. What I can really understand is the yesterday drama over here with the unreleased songs. Like, a person has it, if someone or some people (including me) wants to collect money and buy it, why the hell not? Maybe these songs will never see the light, and we are courious about them. Also the snippet fiasco, really??? These are just 15 sec snippets, recorded via a stupid phone. Also, if you fed up with people who violated the forum rules what you made up, and then harassing you via PM, WHY YOU DON'T BAN THEM OR GIVE THEM A WARNING? I had a breakdown and I got a 2 weeks ban for that.......... You can ban me for haveing a bad moment then you can easily ban other members also. I really hope you guys wont shut down the forum because YOU want to leave.
I'm pretty sure everything will be OK after the album release tho.
I'll agree with you that I don't understand the PM part either, maybe ProBoards has a way of monitoring material sent through PMs, I don't know. As for posting the stuff publicly, it's illegal and against ProBoards rules. Nobody says you can't talk about the unreleased songs or gather up money to buy them, but it should be done outside BA. As again - it violates PROBOARDS rules. ProBoards can have whatever silly rules they like - they can make us stand on our heads and do the electric slide if they want. As long as we are using their website, we follow their rules. These rules aren't made by BA or BA staff - they are made by ProBoards. I do agree with you though that I think we need to start taking more action in cases of disrespectful behavior, like give out warnings or just permaban people who share links even after we've asked not to. I didnt know about proboard rules. I agree then. But I still think sharing snippets are not illegal... I think everybody is just frustrated, excited etc and I think everybody will calm down after the album release
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rocket32
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Post by rocket32 on Feb 11, 2019 18:14:28 GMT
Have you tried simply banning the members responsible? I’d be surprised if it’s people that have been here remaining active suddenly disrespecting the staff and disturbing things so what’s to lose by just bringing the ban hammer down faster? Of course the staff want the forum to grow and you would hope new members become regulars and returning members stay but if this is how they are acting maybe the forum is better off without them.
It’s fine if you don’t want to ban people and prefer to run things looser but maybe this calls for more strict enforcement of the rules until things calm down. There’s only so much the staff should take before they have to stop tolerating it.
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sam
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Post by sam on Feb 11, 2019 18:15:59 GMT
WITH ALL MY RESPECT I don't understand this post. I mean, this is a forum, people will talk, people will always have an opinion. I understand that you had to make rules, but some of them are really unnecessary. I get it, if the album leaks, you don't want to if anybody will share the links in the forum. But via PM? Why not? I said this, but if someone wants to buy the album will buy it anyway. I'm not sure if we really need moderators or not. For me it seems also unnecessary. What I can really understand is the yesterday drama over here with the unreleased songs. Like, a person has it, if someone or some people (including me) wants to collect money and buy it, why the hell not? Maybe these songs will never see the light, and we are courious about them. Also the snippet fiasco, really??? These are just 15 sec snippets, recorded via a stupid phone. Also, if you fed up with people who violated the forum rules what you made up, and then harassing you via PM, WHY YOU DON'T BAN THEM OR GIVE THEM A WARNING? I had a breakdown and I got a 2 weeks ban for that.......... You can ban me for haveing a bad moment then you can easily ban other members also. I really hope you guys wont shut down the forum because YOU want to leave.
I'm pretty sure everything will be OK after the album release tho.
I completely agree with you about us not taking action as much as we could of - that’s absolutely a mistake I am willing to own up to. It may sound silly but part of it is fear and how we are perceived. We’ve never wanted to be viewed as a draconian staff team whom bans members all of the time, but, obviously there is a trade off with that. In hindsight we should of been more strict and I’m sorry. The PM thing is simply because PB (and only PB) can view them. It’s simply us covering all of our bases just in case.
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Feb 11, 2019 18:16:54 GMT
To the staff, I'm sorry to see you go but I get it. It's nice having somewhere to share my thoughts on anything Avril. It's so hard to do that irl. This site would be very missed.
Moving on tho, the topic of leaks has gotten out of hand really fast. There's various other sites to share or discuss buying leaks like the Discord app. From what I understand there you can start chats up by downloading the app. I think it's a good solution for people to stop asking for links. And just share them there instead. Whoever joins is on them.
But I do want to say that I think that the way the people that heard the first leaked snippets were treated was rude. I understand not wanting to ruin the songs or Avril. But that one post from one of the staff condemning all of us was rude and I hope you realize that too. Other than that you all have been cool and appreciated by me. Like when you use your powers to move stuff to the right thread when we get out of topic.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Feb 11, 2019 18:18:17 GMT
Honestly I think if the first thing a new member posts here is something to do with leaks or unreleased material, an automatic ban is completely fine. A lot of these posts IMO have seemed to come from members I've never seen before?
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sam
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Post by sam on Feb 11, 2019 18:22:07 GMT
To the staff, I'm sorry to see you go but I get it. It's nice having somewhere to share my thoughts on anything Avril. It's so hard to do that irl. This site would be very missed. Moving on tho, the topic of leaks has gotten out of hand really fast. There's various other sites to share or discuss buying leaks like the Discord app. From what I understand there you can start chats up by downloading the app. I think it's a good solution for people to stop asking for links. And just share them there instead. Whoever joins is on them. But I do want to say that I think that the way the people that heard the first leaked snippets were treated was rude. I understand not wanting to ruin the songs or Avril. But that one post from one of the staff condemning all of us was rude and I hope you realize that too. Other than that you all have been cool and appreciated by me. Like when you use your powers to move stuff to the right thread when we get out of topic. Absolutely agree with you on the last point - but try to remember whilst we are a team we don’t always have the same viewpoint as we are of course, individuals. It certainly does go both ways and could’ve been worded better.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Feb 11, 2019 18:22:18 GMT
I also think continuing to host the site via ProBoards is a fine option, considering it's free. To recreate a privately owned website again like the old BA would cost money, would require at least some staff to maintain, and overall I think it'd be a lot more work in addition to costing money. Sharifa funded the old BA out of her own pocket, from what I remember. She has been kind enough to allow us to continue using the BA trademark. Starting all over again IMO just wouldn't be worth it, considering that forums and websites like these aren't popular anymore. Ok so PB has a few annoying rules, but overall it's pretty good for what we need it for and most importantly it is free and relatively easy to maintain.
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Feb 11, 2019 18:22:41 GMT
Is there a way to pause signing up new members until Friday? I think that would be helpful but probably impossible..
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rocket32
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Post by rocket32 on Feb 11, 2019 18:24:07 GMT
To add on to what I said before, I’m not sure about everyone else but I would much rather see the staff enforce the rules in a more strict manner and take more severe action faster against disrespectful and toxic people then see the staff leave and close down the forum.
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sam
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Post by sam on Feb 11, 2019 18:27:03 GMT
Is there a way to pause signing up new members until Friday? I think that would be helpful but probably impossible.. It’s entirely possible and it’s something I think is for the best. Thanks for the suggestion
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Meteora
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Post by Meteora on Feb 11, 2019 18:27:47 GMT
Honestly I think if the first thing a new member posts here is something to do with leaks or unreleased material, an automatic ban is completely fine. A lot of these posts IMO have seemed to come from members I've never seen before? that would be great. I honestly think that people who don't want to be banned or doesn't like to follow the rules the staff have, they should build their own site and let's see how they cope with it. It may sound rude but if you don't like it, go build your own site to make whatever you want. People who's been here for a long time stays here for many reasons and surely one of them is because they feel this is a "safe" place. I've read many here saying that they'd rather be on ATRL because of this and that but after some time you see them here again. I'm saying this and of course, I don't to have my hands clean or anything. But you start to realize what you have once you lose it.
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