Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 11:32:50 GMT
Gabo posted this in another thread, and I was encouraged to start a whole new thread about it, because I think it's just too interesting to be mentioned once and then forgotten about:- I'd release those unreleased tracks she did with Clif Magness, they did a bunch of hard-rocking songs similar to Unwanted and Losing Grip (I think even harder than that), before Arista sent her The Matrix to do mainstream pop songs. Will leave here one of the quotes of it: - " Arista was drop-dead shit afraid that I would come out with a whole album that sounded like ‘Unwanted’ and ‘Losing Grip" - Avril about Arista - " ... the harder-rocking songs on Let Go – specifically “Losing Grip” and “Unwanted” – had the sound she wanted for the whole album. Those tracks were co-written with Clif Magness, who gave her enough creative control that she was able to pen “every single lyric and the melodies.” She says the label wasn't thrilled by the heavy guitar sound, and that's when it hooked her up with the Matrix." - " Lavigne played The Matrix a song that she had recorded and really loved, a rock track in the vein of System of a Down. The lyrics were kind of 'I hate you, I hate you, hate you,'" The Matrix about Lavigne. www.rollingstone.com/music/news/little-miss-cant-be-wrong-20030320www.ew.com/article/2002/11/01/avril-lavigne-anti-britneyIt's really interesting to learn about what she originally wanted to do with LG, and I wonder how things would have turned out had she said "No" to the label and done her own thing. What would her music sound like in 2015? Would her career have been as successful?
|
|
BogoGog24
Administrator
I'm off again in my world...
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 12:38:58 GMT
Posts: 14,641
Likes: 38,886
User is online
|
Post by BogoGog24 on Sept 10, 2015 11:42:27 GMT
Well I think later on Avril acknowledged that it wouldn't have been a good idea. Had she gone with a full rock album for her first album I think she'd have been marketed as more of an Alanis Morissette. But Avril knew if she wanted to be successful she had to release a pop album so she went along with it. UMS was I think really the album that she wanted so that's what she did for her second album and we all know she had much more creative control there and that she was more invested in that album. So she still got to do a dark rock album, just not as her first album. And she obviously never continued on that path.
I think if Avril had released an UMS type album as her first record she could have been successful in the alternative market like Evanescence or Paramore but I don't think she'd have been successful as a pop or mainstream act. I don't think she'd be nearly as big as she is today without those hits like Complicated and Sk8er Boi.
|
|
BogoGog24
Administrator
I'm off again in my world...
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 12:38:58 GMT
Posts: 14,641
Likes: 38,886
User is online
|
Post by BogoGog24 on Sept 10, 2015 12:07:36 GMT
I also think it is worth noting what her influences were like at the time. This is a 16 year old kid that grew up listening to pretty much nothing but country and gospel music because that's all her parents would let her listen to. At some point in her high school years she "discovered" some rock music like Alanis Morissette, the Distillers, System of A Down, Hole, etc. Perhaps maybe her brother or some friends from school got her into that kind of music. Now being that Avril was quite the tomboy back then, of course that kind of music would appeal to her tastes more than something like Britney Spears. So when she got the chance to make her own record, that was the type of stuff she wanted to do because it's what she knew at the time. She didn't know much else and even in the vein of rock music, her knowledge was minimal.
Gabo posted another quote in the Avril Influences thread, reminding me of when her band gave Avril a bunch of rock CDs for her birthday, including Nirvana's Nevermind. So Avril didn't really start to know much rock or punk music until after she had already made LG, at least that's what it sounds like to me. I really think the whole "I want to make dark rock music" stemmed from a) Just wanting to be different from what else was already out there and b) What her very small tastes and influences were at the time (when I say "small" I mean that she didn't know very much yet, since she was only 16 and just getting into that kind of music). She did continue with that genre in UMS of course and like I said, I think that's the style of album she really wanted to make, so when she got that chance, she took it and did what she wanted to do and it went over well.
But obviously over time she grew older and became influenced by different people, personally and professionally, as well as developed different musical tastes. She started listening to more pop stuff like Ke$ha. She wasn't a 16 year old from a small town that never heard of the Sex Pistols anymore. And it's common knowledge amongst the fans that her labels have had at least some control over her albums from the very beginning, not just LG. Even UMS has its share of radio songs, just like all her other albums do. There was a "political" song about a serial killer that Avril wanted to put on UMS but the label said no. We know RCA made her go back on TBDT and work with Dr. Luke because they weren't seeing any radio friendly hits. And of course that happened to an even bigger degree on GL and AL. So, yes, there's also a large part of it that is influenced by her label as well. And I think at this point in her career Avril knows that part of her job is to have songs for radio and she knows what kinds of songs suit radio. So I would say her tastes have sort of been molded at this point by that too.
So if Avril had done a rock album in the beginning and would she still be doing it now? Maybe, maybe not. These kinds of questions are sort of pointless because we have no way of knowing what would have or wouldn't have happened, we can only guess and make assumptions based on what we do know. Avril could have kept making UMS type albums for her whole career, but as I said, would have probably only been successful in the alternative market and never would have become the big star she is today, with world tours and all that. That type of music is not popular in 2015 and if she continued doing music like that, I think she'd have just faded into obscurity eventually. Hence why she isn't actually doing it in 2015 now.
I think the "dark rocker" thing was just simply a phase for her and nothing more. She's always loved that kind of music, but I think it was just something she felt like doing in her earlier years because it was all she knew. And after it lost popularity I think she/the label also decided she should head in another direction if she wanted to remain popular and successful. Of course she still tries to incorporate it in her music (Bad Girl, LMG, Alice) but just not doing full albums of it anymore. I think Avril has also mellowed out since then and doesn't feel the need to express teenage angst through angry rock music anymore. She's simply just grown up, personally and professionally, has met all kinds of different people and listened to different music since those years, so naturally her tastes would have changed. That's really all I personally think that it was.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 13:00:21 GMT
Avril could have kept making UMS type albums for her whole career, but as I said, would have probably only been successful in the alternative market and never would have become the big star she is today, with world tours and all that. That type of music is not popular in 2015 and if she continued doing music like that, I think she'd have just faded into obscurity eventually. Hence why she isn't actually doing it in 2015 now. What IS she doing, exactly? TBDT was 8 years ago. GL kind of flopped, AL also kind of flopped. The AL tour was a bit of an embarrassment for everyone. I think Hello Kitty was a fun novelty song for a lot of people, but I don't think anyone cares about it anymore. Fly hasn't exactly set the world on fire. The most media attention she's had recently was through the unfortunate circumstance of her being ill, and then parting ways with her husband. Am I missing anything? But I disagree with the inference that not becoming a big star would have meant her career was doomed. There's like a million bands and artists who have never made it big, but have been consistently making music for decades and are doing pretty well. Come to think of it, you've said in other discussions that you think Avril has enough staying power to make it as an indie artist, so why the pessimism?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 13:52:59 GMT
It's really interesting to learn about what she originally wanted to do with LG, and I wonder how things would have turned out had she said "No" to the label and done her own thing. What would her music sound like in 2015? Would her career have been as successful?
If Avril had released a full-on rock album, would she have been less successful? I doubt it. Early 2000s radio was booming with radio-friendly post grunge rock. If she had managed to come up with a catchy rock lead single that replaces Complicated, she still would have been successful.
What made Avril huge wasn't just her catchy pop tunes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 15:05:32 GMT
So if Avril had done a rock album in the beginning and would she still be doing it now? Maybe, maybe not. These kinds of questions are sort of pointless because we have no way of knowing what would have or wouldn't have happened, we can only guess and make assumptions based on what we do know. Avril could have kept making UMS type albums for her whole career, but as I said, would have probably only been successful in the alternative market and never would have become the big star she is today, with world tours and all that. That type of music is not popular in 2015 and if she continued doing music like that, I think she'd have just faded into obscurity eventually. Hence why she isn't actually doing it in 2015 now.
Things like "fading into obsucurity" is not that common in rock market. The huge popularity during the peak of their career may die out eventually, but their songs are played regardless of being 'old'. They still stay steadily relevant, relevant enough to go on world tours.
Look at Breaking Benjamin, for instance. (the famous "The Diary of Jane") The band's commercial peak (or Benjamin Burnley's) was during their third album, Phobia (2006). They went through a long hiatus - for five years - after releasing their fourth album (2010).
But their new album (2015, Dark Before Dawn) debuted No 1 at Billboard 200, selling 135,000 in pure album sales.
Is Breaking Benjamin currently recognized widely, like other pop acts? No. But their fans are timeless - the typical characteristic of rock bands and artists.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 15:27:34 GMT
It's really interesting to learn about what she originally wanted to do with LG, and I wonder how things would have turned out had she said "No" to the label and done her own thing. What would her music sound like in 2015? Would her career have been as successful?
She would have been more musically inspired as she grew up, would have become an "artist" - would have become more skilled in songwriting, and maybe composing and producing too, as "doing her own thing" means she would have to constantly develop herself and her music.
Fourth album would have never been criticized of having low quality in songwriting.
"Avril Lavigne" would have not been a synonym to "Poser".
Would still have a lot of fans, since people won't be "embarassed" - harshly speaking - of liking her.
Won't have so much haters on her youtube comment sections.
Her songs won't be played on mainstream pop radios, but her albums would have been steady sellers.
Would still have pride in "not being pop and being rock".
Paramore wouldn't have been successful
Might have been called a second "Alanis Morissette".
Might have disliked Nickelback (like some rock artists and bands), might have never collaborated with Chad Kroeger. Avril had a lack of knowledge on Nickelback before they married.
My favorite track of all time - Avril's "How You Remind Me" cover - might have never existed.
|
|
BogoGog24
Administrator
I'm off again in my world...
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 12:38:58 GMT
Posts: 14,641
Likes: 38,886
User is online
|
Post by BogoGog24 on Sept 10, 2015 16:56:18 GMT
Avril could have kept making UMS type albums for her whole career, but as I said, would have probably only been successful in the alternative market and never would have become the big star she is today, with world tours and all that. That type of music is not popular in 2015 and if she continued doing music like that, I think she'd have just faded into obscurity eventually. Hence why she isn't actually doing it in 2015 now. What IS she doing, exactly? TBDT was 8 years ago. GL kind of flopped, AL also kind of flopped. The AL tour was a bit of an embarrassment for everyone. I think Hello Kitty was a fun novelty song for a lot of people, but I don't think anyone cares about it anymore. Fly hasn't exactly set the world on fire. The most media attention she's had recently was through the unfortunate circumstance of her being ill, and then parting ways with her husband. Am I missing anything? But I disagree with the inference that not becoming a big star would have meant her career was doomed. There's like a million bands and artists who have never made it big, but have been consistently making music for decades and are doing pretty well. Come to think of it, you've said in other discussions that you think Avril has enough staying power to make it as an indie artist, so why the pessimism? Yes she could have steadily released music but she wouldn't be nearly as famous or successful as she is as a pop artist. Like I doubt she'd have been offered movie roles or an opportunity to design clothes and perfumes, etc. I do think at some point probably around 2009 or 2010 she would start to fade into obscurity unless she revamped that sound because, yeah, that type of music isn't really popular anymore. When was the last time you heard anything about a band like say Evanescence? And Paramore has changed the direction of their sound too (Aint It Fun). If Avril kept making 2004 rock music over and over again without ever changing anything to fit with the times, it's definitely possible she wouldn't have lasted in the industry. She has a chance to stay relevant as an indie artist due to her stardom NOW. If she started out that way and nobody knew who she was, I'm not so sure. But she has enough fans and fame at this point to go independent if she wants to and still sell. But she got to that point because of being a pop singer first.
|
|
Jack
Retired Staff
Join Date: Mar 18, 2015 15:42:45 GMT
Posts: 866
Likes: 2,346
Last Online: Jul 6, 2022 2:30:56 GMT
|
Post by Jack on Sept 10, 2015 17:45:52 GMT
It's really interesting to learn about what she originally wanted to do with LG, and I wonder how things would have turned out had she said "No" to the label and done her own thing. What would her music sound like in 2015? Would her career have been as successful?
If Avril had released a full-on rock album, would she have been less successful? I doubt it. Early 2000s radio was booming with radio-friendly post grunge rock. If she had managed to come up with a catchy rock lead single that replaces Complicated, she still would have been successful.
What made Avril huge wasn't just her catchy pop tunes.
She wouldn't have been as massive as she was, that's for sure. She could've been successful, but I don't think she could've sold 16+ million albums or having multiple top-10 singles. I would agree that she wasn't only successful due to catchy pop tunes, but there's no way she would've been as successful as she was without them. She had the complete package: pop with a "rock", "edgy" and "alternative" flavour that came exactly when it was needed. It's really interesting to learn about what she originally wanted to do with LG, and I wonder how things would have turned out had she said "No" to the label and done her own thing. What would her music sound like in 2015? Would her career have been as successful?
She would have been more musically inspired as she grew up, would have become an "artist" - would have become more skilled in songwriting, and maybe composing and producing too, as "doing her own thing" means she would have to constantly develop herself and her music.
Fourth album would have never been criticized of having low quality in songwriting.
"Avril Lavigne" would have not been a synonym to "Poser".
Would still have a lot of fans, since people won't be "embarassed" - harshly speaking - of liking her.
Won't have so much haters on her youtube comment sections.
Her songs won't be played on mainstream pop radios, but her albums would have been steady sellers.
Would still have pride in "not being pop and being rock".
Paramore wouldn't have been successful
Might have been called a second "Alanis Morissette".
Might have disliked Nickelback (like some rock artists and bands), might have never collaborated with Chad Kroeger. Avril had a lack of knowledge on Nickelback before they married.
My favorite track of all time - Avril's "How You Remind Me" cover - might have never existed.
Well, she still wanted to compose/write and produce a some songs on her own, so she likely would have done even more and she could've been more skilled at it. Maybe yes, maybe no. Some people would probably still complained. Yes, but she's been accused of poser all her career though, not only with the self-titled album. I'm not sure about that. I have my doubts that she would have had the amount of fans she has today despite being a "flop". Her mainstream exposure helped (and still does) a lot. I would agree that a lot of people are embarrassed to like her or her music, and/or ar waiting for her to release a certain kind of music to support her (again). Probably not, since the more fans, success and relevancy you have the more haters you'll have. Possibly, yes. I don't think she would be really too close-minded or defensive about it, though. Probably not as successful, because Avril wouldn't have sold out and they couldn't have taken advantadge of it
She still was called at that, but she could've demostrated/showed with her music. Maybe. Probably not. I'm sure she was more familiar to Nickelback's music than you give her credit for. Nope, not a chance. It's easily her best cover, even Chad's haters liked it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 8:29:06 GMT
She would have been more musically inspired as she grew up, would have become an "artist" - would have become more skilled in songwriting, and maybe composing and producing too, as "doing her own thing" means she would have to constantly develop herself and her music.
Fourth album would have never been criticized of having low quality in songwriting.
"Avril Lavigne" would have not been a synonym to "Poser".
Would still have a lot of fans, since people won't be "embarassed" - harshly speaking - of liking her.
Won't have so much haters on her youtube comment sections.
Her songs won't be played on mainstream pop radios, but her albums would have been steady sellers.
Would still have pride in "not being pop and being rock".
Paramore wouldn't have been successful
Might have been called a second "Alanis Morissette".
Might have disliked Nickelback (like some rock artists and bands), might have never collaborated with Chad Kroeger. Avril had a lack of knowledge on Nickelback before they married.
My favorite track of all time - Avril's "How You Remind Me" cover - might have never existed.
1. Well, she still wanted to compose/write and produce a some songs on her own, so she likely would have done even more and she could've been more skilled at it. 2. Maybe yes, maybe no. Some people would probably still complained.3. Yes, but she's been accused of poser all her career though, not only with the self-titled album.
I'm not sure about that. I have my doubts that she would have had the amount of fans she has today despite being a "flop". Her mainstream exposure helped (and still does) a lot. I would agree that a lot of people are embarrassed to like her or her music, and/or ar waiting for her to release a certain kind of music to support her (again). 4. Probably not, since the more fans, success and relevancy you have the more haters you'll have.Possibly, yes. I don't think she would be really too close-minded or defensive about it, though. Probably not as successful, because Avril wouldn't have sold out and they couldn't have taken advantadge of it
She still was called at that, but she could've demostrated/showed with her music. 5. Maybe. Probably not. I'm sure she was more familiar to Nickelback's music than you give her credit for.Nope, not a chance. It's easily her best cover, even Chad's haters liked it.
Didn't expect a sentence-by-sentence comment.
1. I was talking about "efforts to develop her artistic ability", not just writing and producing songs on her own. Take the title "pop star" from Avril - she won't be able to 'easily come up with an idea, sit down and write down a song' like she claimed in the past. If she was not a pop star, to stay relevant, the "quality" would have mattered immensly more than settling for the "popularity" she already had. Every word she pens will require enormous efforts and inspirations, and I'm sure the result would never have been Goodbye Lullaby-quality. (I know you love that album, but it's easily her most poorly-written album.)
2. My point was about "musical critics." Not the complaining from fans, but "criticism" from professionals.
3. I am not talking about the self-titled album. (isn't it obvious?)
4. Not that kind of haters. Isn't it common to see a lot of people call her music awful, even when she isn't exactly relevant and successful nowadays? Don't we see people who were her target audience in their childhood but grew out of Avril, now laughing at their past idol?
5.
There are a LOT of naughty songs in Nickelback's discography, but if Avril had never heard of them....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 8:42:49 GMT
What IS she doing, exactly? TBDT was 8 years ago. GL kind of flopped, AL also kind of flopped. The AL tour was a bit of an embarrassment for everyone. I think Hello Kitty was a fun novelty song for a lot of people, but I don't think anyone cares about it anymore. Fly hasn't exactly set the world on fire. The most media attention she's had recently was through the unfortunate circumstance of her being ill, and then parting ways with her husband. Am I missing anything? But I disagree with the inference that not becoming a big star would have meant her career was doomed. There's like a million bands and artists who have never made it big, but have been consistently making music for decades and are doing pretty well. Come to think of it, you've said in other discussions that you think Avril has enough staying power to make it as an indie artist, so why the pessimism? Yes she could have steadily released music but she wouldn't be nearly as famous or successful as she is as a pop artist. Like I doubt she'd have been offered movie roles or an opportunity to design clothes and perfumes, etc. I do think at some point probably around 2009 or 2010 she would start to fade into obscurity unless she revamped that sound because, yeah, that type of music isn't really popular anymore. When was the last time you heard anything about a band like say Evanescence? And Paramore has changed the direction of their sound too (Aint It Fun). If Avril kept making 2004 rock music over and over again without ever changing anything to fit with the times, it's definitely possible she wouldn't have lasted in the industry.
She has a chance to stay relevant as an indie artist due to her stardom NOW. If she started out that way and nobody knew who she was, I'm not so sure. But she has enough fans and fame at this point to go independent if she wants to and still sell. But she got to that point because of being a pop singer first.
Doing what she originally wanted to do with LG, becoming a rock artist doesn't mean she would have made the same music over and over again.
|
|
Jack
Retired Staff
Join Date: Mar 18, 2015 15:42:45 GMT
Posts: 866
Likes: 2,346
Last Online: Jul 6, 2022 2:30:56 GMT
|
Post by Jack on Sept 11, 2015 10:22:56 GMT
1. Well, she still wanted to compose/write and produce a some songs on her own, so she likely would have done even more and she could've been more skilled at it. 2. Maybe yes, maybe no. Some people would probably still complained.3. Yes, but she's been accused of poser all her career though, not only with the self-titled album.
I'm not sure about that. I have my doubts that she would have had the amount of fans she has today despite being a "flop". Her mainstream exposure helped (and still does) a lot. I would agree that a lot of people are embarrassed to like her or her music, and/or ar waiting for her to release a certain kind of music to support her (again). 4. Probably not, since the more fans, success and relevancy you have the more haters you'll have.Possibly, yes. I don't think she would be really too close-minded or defensive about it, though. Probably not as successful, because Avril wouldn't have sold out and they couldn't have taken advantadge of it
She still was called at that, but she could've demostrated/showed with her music. 5. Maybe. Probably not. I'm sure she was more familiar to Nickelback's music than you give her credit for.Nope, not a chance. It's easily her best cover, even Chad's haters liked it.
Didn't expect a sentence-by-sentence comment.
1. I was talking about "efforts to develop her artistic ability", not just writing and producing songs on her own. Take the title "pop star" from Avril - she won't be able to 'easily come up with an idea, sit down and write down a song' like she claimed in the past. If she was not a pop star, to stay relevant, the "quality" would have mattered immensly more than settling for the "popularity" she already had. Every word she pens will require enormous efforts and inspirations, and I'm sure the result would never have been Goodbye Lullaby-quality. (I know you love that album, but it's easily her most poorly-written album.)
2. My point was about "musical critics." Not the complaining from fans, but "criticism" from professionals.
3. I am not talking about the self-titled album. (isn't it obvious?)
4. Not that kind of haters. Isn't it common to see a lot of people call her music awful, even when she isn't exactly relevant and successful nowadays? Don't we see people who were her target audience in their childhood but grew out of Avril, now laughing at their past idol?
5.
There are a LOT of naughty songs in Nickelback's discography, but if Avril had never heard of them.... 1. Writing and producing songs IS a way to develop the artistic ability. Sure, results may have been underwhelming to some people because different reasons, but if she had kept co-writing and let others produce all her songs like she did with previous albums people would've criticized her for lack of artistic ambition and/or laziness. It could have or could have not been better than GL. 2. My point still remains. Musical critics aren't necessarily the epitome of objectivity, and some of them actually loved what Avril did with her fourth album. 3. My bad, I misunderstood. Chances would've been lower, but she could've still been called that to an extent. 4. Oh, the fans that turned into haters, y ou should've been more specific. Yeah, there likely wouldn't been so many, either.
5. Not even really knew about Avril's knowledge, lol. Well, I think she could've checked all their discography when they met or when they started dating, I know I would if I dated some musician and didn't know about the repertoire beforehand. And Avril obviously didn't care that much about the naughty stuff, because Bad Girl was a bit naughty. I felt that you wanted to make it look like if she had known about their naughty songs, she wouldn't have wanted to date him or even collaborated with him, but that's just an objective, even desired point of view. She's done some songs in the past that were a bit sexual, like Hot (pretty much all the song) or WTH (messing with you in bed), so I don't think she minds that much about sexual stuff. But hey, each one with our own opinion, I suppose.
|
|
BogoGog24
Administrator
I'm off again in my world...
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 12:38:58 GMT
Posts: 14,641
Likes: 38,886
User is online
|
Post by BogoGog24 on Sept 11, 2015 11:41:15 GMT
OT but I don't get the big deal of Avril not knowing much Nickelback music. How much of her music do you think Chad was familiar with outside of Complicated, Sk8er Boi, MHE, and GF? Probably not very much. Although it is a bit surprising Nickelback isn't a band Avril ever seemed to be into before, since a Canadian rock band would be right up her alley. Even in the days when rock was all she listened to she never listed them as a favorite.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: Mar 28, 2024 15:37:57 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 12:47:58 GMT
Didn't expect a sentence-by-sentence comment.
1. I was talking about "efforts to develop her artistic ability", not just writing and producing songs on her own. Take the title "pop star" from Avril - she won't be able to 'easily come up with an idea, sit down and write down a song' like she claimed in the past. If she was not a pop star, to stay relevant, the "quality" would have mattered immensly more than settling for the "popularity" she already had. Every word she pens will require enormous efforts and inspirations, and I'm sure the result would never have been Goodbye Lullaby-quality. (I know you love that album, but it's easily her most poorly-written album.)
2. My point was about "musical critics." Not the complaining from fans, but "criticism" from professionals.
3. I am not talking about the self-titled album. (isn't it obvious?)
4. Not that kind of haters. Isn't it common to see a lot of people call her music awful, even when she isn't exactly relevant and successful nowadays? Don't we see people who were her target audience in their childhood but grew out of Avril, now laughing at their past idol?
5.
There are a LOT of naughty songs in Nickelback's discography, but if Avril had never heard of them.... 1. Writing and producing songs IS a way to develop the artistic ability. Sure, results may have been underwhelming to some people because different reasons, but if she had kept co-writing and let others produce all her songs like she did with previous albums people would've criticized her for lack of artistic ambition and/or laziness. It could have or could have not been better than GL. 2. My point still remains. Musical critics aren't necessarily the epitome of objectivity, and some of them actually loved what Avril did with her fourth album. 3. My bad, I misunderstood. Chances would've been lower, but she could've still been called that to an extent. 4. Oh, the fans that turned into haters, y ou should've been more specific. Yeah, there likely wouldn't been so many, either.
5. Not even really knew about Avril's knowledge, lol. Well, I think she could've checked all their discography when they met or when they started dating, I know I would if I dated some musician and didn't know about the repertoire beforehand. And Avril obviously didn't care that much about the naughty stuff, because Bad Girl was a bit naughty. I felt that you wanted to make it look like if she had known about their naughty songs, she wouldn't have wanted to date him or even collaborated with him, but that's just an objective, even desired point of view. She's done some songs in the past that were a bit sexual, like Hot (pretty much all the song) or WTH (messing with you in bed), so I don't think she minds that much about sexual stuff. But hey, each one with our own opinion, I suppose. 1. (I never said writing&producing songs were not a way to develop artistic/musical skills. By '"efforts" to develop her artistic ability', I meant.... more than that.)
"but if she had kept co-writing and let others produce all her songs like she did with previous albums people would've criticized her for lack of artistic ambition and/or laziness"
The topic is [How things would have turned out had she said 'No' to the label and done her own thing since Let Go], not the alternative decision she could have made in the GL era. If she had done her own things from the start, Avril Lavigne would have been the primary writer of all "previous albums", and maybe could have released an album without any interferences by professional co-writers and producers.
2. But she still received "generally negative views", some going even further to call GL a "disposable pop".
5. I only said "She might have not collaborated with Chad Kroeger", and quoted the article that made me believe Avril didn't know a lot about Nickelback. The naughtiness in some Nickelback songs, the "sexual contents in songs" topic - these are not my concerns. The reason I said "There are a LOT of naughty songs in Nickelback's discography, but if Avril had never heard of them...." was to infer that she was not that familiar with Nickelback's songs.
|
|
BogoGog24
Administrator
I'm off again in my world...
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 12:38:58 GMT
Posts: 14,641
Likes: 38,886
User is online
|
Post by BogoGog24 on Sept 11, 2015 12:50:08 GMT
I do think it's hilarious that Avril supposedly would hear one of their songs on the radio and ask who it was. Can't she recognize her own (ex) husband's voice?
|
|