slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Apr 6, 2019 18:23:02 GMT
I wanted to say something but y'all wrapped things up pretty nicely before me, so there's little I could add. I quietly never expected much to come from this album because its a tendency for many artists to begin dropping flops after flops, but a good portion of the album turned out much much better than I expected. With that said, there's still plenty of room where these songs should've been improved. Promo sucks, but then again, I generally followed promo of any artist very very passively, so that doesn't really affect me, although it is kinda shame for Avril to just let go of the high recognition she has/had. I don't know much about Taylor Swift, I am no fan of hers, partially because I just don't find her songs appealing, and partially because I dislike how her parents bought her way into the mainstream through wealth and nepotism - but I can say 'kudos' to her if she really is as friendly to her listeners as y'all say so. Not to go too off topic here but the story about Taylor’s family “buying” her a record deal is embellished. Her dad did invest a quarter of a million dollars into Big Machine when it was first getting going, and that’s certainly more money than most families have to just drop on something like that, but it was still only a 3% stake in the label. Taylor definitely had advantages and certain privileges that most kids don’t and that helped her a lot. But over the years she has proven her worth as an artist and given back ten fold to people in need. If she wasn’t that talented, her parents buying her a record deal wouldn’t have necessarily made her a star. She wouldn’t have lasted more than a few years in the business if she didn’t truly have what it takes. I think she would have become famous and successful regardless of her family’s financial situation. And over the years she has given back a lot and made donations to lots of charities or her own fans in need. Even back when she was a kid and she wanted to go to Britney Spears’ music camp it was only for underprivileged kids but they agreed to let her in if her parents made a donation instead. Her parents I’m sure were also aware of their wealth and gave donations to those in need whenever possible. I don’t think the Swifts were ever the type of people who flaunted their wealth. From what I've read about it she does seem to have quite some talent (even outside the spectrum of performance itself), because she seems to have been very involved in making her albums, and I know that she isn't really to blame for what happened, but I think it wouldn't be surprising if she's been a personal "project child" of her parents. I mean, they were driving her up and down the states like there's no tomorrow when she was merely 12, 13, 14 years old, pushing her into as many festivals, auditions and other events as they could. Is it really normal to subject a child that hasn't even finished primary schooling into such an intensive campaign? It kinda reminds me of parents who get a baby daughter, and decide that they'll subject her to a long and torturous training to be an Olympic athlete from the age of four onwards, or those seeking to make a beauty contestant out of their child, etc. If money can make you the biggest star of the world, Paris Hilton must have done something wrong then since she flopped with ber songs LOL Her album and singles were a commercial success, reached many top 100 charts, including one single reaching 18th place on billboard, so it was hardly a flop, especially considering that she has little talent, and relied almost exclusively on her writers and producers to make something usable. Imagine her not being affluent - she wouldn't even have any usable music, nor would she be heard outside her small social circle. I still remember her "Stars are blind" song being almost on repeat on all the tv and radio channels.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 6, 2019 18:29:12 GMT
Taylor’s parents didn’t push her into anything. She wanted to be on the stage as a kid, starting with musical theater. She wanted to go to Nashville and be a country singer. Her parents might have known how to help her succeed and the right people to talk to and such but it was all Taylor’s ambition. Her parents originally expected her to become a businesswoman like them.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on Apr 6, 2019 18:42:14 GMT
I don't get why you use the verb SEEM, ''she seems to be involved in her albums'', no she doesn't seem.. SHE IS INVOLVED IN HER ALBUMS, she even wrote a full album all by herself, she is the main writer of any of her songs.. so if you don't know the things, just don't say it and maybe you can inform a little bit more?? Like Bogo said she wanted to sing and be a singer-songwriter, she worked hard, she went to every label on Nashville to let the demos, she got a deal with RCA as a writer, then she dropped them because they wanted her to wait to release her first album when she would be 18 and she was 15 at the time and a nobody! She got a really big risk to leave the biggest label out there and got signed to a a non-existent one, cuz she built the Big Machine Records day by day with HER SONGS, the dad may help the label to be in the busness, but if all the workers can eat it's only thanks to Taylor Swift and not her dad.
That's why i made the Paris Hilton comparision, because she has money, but she failed to build a music career..so.....
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Apr 6, 2019 19:07:19 GMT
I don't get why you use the verb SEEM, ''she seems to be involved in her albums'', no she doesn't seem.. SHE IS INVOLVED IN HER ALBUMS, she even wrote a full album all by herself, she is the main writer of any of her songs.. so if you don't know the things, just don't say it and maybe you can inform a little bit more?? Like Bogo said she wanted to sing and be a singer-songwriter, she worked hard, she went to every label on Nashville to let the demos, she got a deal with RCA as a writer, then she dropped them because they wanted her to wait to release her first album when she would be 18 and she was 15 at the time and a nobody! She got a really big risk to leave the biggest label out there and got signed to a a non-existent one, cuz she built the Big Machine Records day by day with HER SONGS, the dad may help the label to be in the busness, but if all the workers can eat it's only thanks to Taylor Swift and not her dad. That's why i made the Paris Hilton comparision, because she has money, but she failed to build a music career..so..... Its a figure of speech to say that "it seems". And I stand for what I said about her beginnings - of course, as always I may be wrong, but from experience of what I've read about the music industry, film industry, as well as from personal experiences with affluent families and their children, I think my assessment may not be far from the truth. Also - no need to get so riled up here, we're merely having a chatter.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Apr 6, 2019 19:14:16 GMT
Taylor’s parents didn’t push her into anything. She wanted to be on the stage as a kid, starting with musical theater. She wanted to go to Nashville and be a country singer. Her parents might have known how to help her succeed and the right people to talk to and such but it was all Taylor’s ambition. Her parents originally expected her to become a businesswoman like them. Sure, the parents or maybe family members have seen that she has some potential as a musician, and decided to obsessively go all-in with it, it would be nothing out of the ordinary tbh. Maybe they had luck that she's quite talented and really loves doing it, there are probably tons of other "Taylor Swifts" out there that didn't like it as much, or had less talent, and broke down under pressure before getting big.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 6, 2019 19:24:01 GMT
But Avril was pretty much the same way but somehow you don't think her parents also pushed her into it? Because Taylor and her parents went more aggressively at it it means she was pushed into it? When Avril was young she really loved singing and her mom noticed and tried to help her get gigs in town wherever she could. Her parents tried to make her practice a lot, which she didn't like. But Avril performed all around town as a kid and really enjoyed it, which obviously led to her eventual music career. Her parents never pushed her into it but they tried to help her because they saw she had talent and being like any supportive parents, they used their resources to book gigs for her and such. They didn't go as aggressively with it as the Swifts maybe did, but really their situations aren't that different. Two families that had talented kids who wanted to help them succeed, the way most supportive parents do.
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paperbackwriter
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Post by paperbackwriter on Apr 6, 2019 19:50:56 GMT
I'm finding this amusing. Shit all over Avril but God forbid you talk ill of Taylor Swift. The truth of the matter is we may think we know how Taylor got her deal or how she writes her songs, etc, but we will never know the whole truth and that 3% stake in Big Machine will always leave room for people for question. So it is perfectly acceptable to say it "seems." I would never say that Taylor isn't talented but I also think she has a far better team of people behind her than say Avril does. But then Taylor is in the pinnacle of her career right now, things may change at some point.
The thing with Avril is that people bought what her team was selling in the beginning about her being this amazing young singer songwriter but until HAW she never really showed it past LG, which had the Matrix heavily involved.
I honestly don't understand what is supposed to be missing in this album that makes is "not Avril." Apart from TMIO and Crush the whole album sounds like her old stuff. HAW, Warrior, and IWIM are her typical ballads that she's been putting out sing TBDT. Birdie and IFILWTD could be from UMS if they had louder guitar. DB sounds like Girlfriend part two. Souvenir and BW sound like they could be on LG. The only major difference is the lack of electric guitar and the better songwriting. If it had more electric guitar I doubt people would be saying so much about it missing something.
I totally understand feeling disappointment over promo and not liking the album but the constant negativity here towards Avril is getting really depressing. We're even on her constantly talking shit over her silly jokes on instagram. On the same token there is half an Avril thread praising Taylor Swift like she's a pop goddess. I know she interacts with fans better than Avril does and she's a better songwriter, I'm not blind, but I feel like some people are looking at Taylor with the same rose coloured glasses that I could be accused of looking at Avril with. If Avril is not giving you what you feel you need from an artist and you get that somewhere else then by all means go listen to whatever makes you happy. If all you can say about Avril right now is negative then maybe it's time to move on at least for a little bit.
People say not to use lyme as an excuse for her any more but I feel like it completely changed her perspective on her career. She realised what was really important in life and it's not fame, it's not the people who fawn over you on instagram one minute then shit on your the next; it's your family and friends and your health. I believe that Avril does appreciate us or else she wouldn't bother traveling overseas to do promo or using social media at all. Those snapchats you all hate are for your entertainment, whether you like them or not. It may not be what you want from Avril, but she seems to be trying after all these years of almost no updates. But it doesn't seem to matter what she does, some people will never be happy because the rose coloured glasses broke and they apparently can't be repaired. That's ok! Blink 182's music helped me through so much as a teen but I'm just not as big of a fan of theirs any more. I'll always appreciate what their music did for me but I moved on and I don't pay as much attention to them any more. It keeps me from feeling bitter over any changes they've made over the years.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Apr 6, 2019 19:54:04 GMT
But Avril was pretty much the same way but somehow you don't think her parents also pushed her into it? Because Taylor and her parents went more aggressively at it it means she was pushed into it? When Avril was young she really loved singing and her mom noticed and tried to help her get gigs in town wherever she could. Her parents tried to make her practice a lot, which she didn't like. But Avril performed all around town as a kid and really enjoyed it, which obviously led to her eventual music career. Her parents never pushed her into it but they tried to help her because they saw she had talent and being like any supportive parents, they used their resources to book gigs for her and such. They didn't go as aggressively with it as the Swifts maybe did, but really their situations aren't that different. Two families that had talented kids who wanted to help them succeed, the way most supportive parents do. Avril's parents do likely share some traits, yes. It feels like they were a bit less intensive about it, or maybe the impression comes out of the fact that they had less resources available? Impossible to really know, all we have is indirect indices. And I don't see an issue if parents do aid a kid in pursuing their dreams a bit, but I think that pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars, moving residences, and having a whole pilgrimage down the east coast made exclusively for some early-teen child is a bit excessive to be called reasonable.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 6, 2019 20:40:08 GMT
They moved down there because Taylor had been signed as a songwriter for Sony/ATV Publishing and then shortly after got a development deal with RCA. In interviews maybe she makes it sound like she begged her parents to take her to Nashville and they were just like "Ok!" But I think they moved down there officially when she had gotten a publishing deal and development deal and it actually seemed like her career was going somewhere. Her dad was able to keep the same job that he had and transfer to the Nashville branch so it all worked out.
It's not that we're shitting on Avril and then defending Taylor - it's that people are saying things about Taylor that aren't actually true. I'd be the same way if someone said something about Avril that wasn't true. We're discussing opinions about her music and how we currently feel about her. But if someone were to say something that simply wasn't true, that could be proven with facts, I would defend her as well.
When I say that something feels missing for me from her last few albums, it's more like the person. Not necessarily the music. There is just something so different about her last 3 albums in comparison to her first 3. I just sense a difference in her. I can't explain it. I'm not saying that because she changed as a person that it's a bad thing. But I do feel she changed from TBDT to GL as an artist and performer. It's like she lost her passion a bit I think. I don't know, it just lacks a certain magic for me that her early albums have. Like they lack personality or individuality or something.
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birdie2020
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Post by birdie2020 on Apr 6, 2019 22:01:35 GMT
This is kind of turning into the Taylor Swift thread. **watching and laughing** What about me?
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Apr 6, 2019 23:07:31 GMT
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mike17
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Post by mike17 on Apr 8, 2019 2:42:51 GMT
I wouldn't blame Avril for weak promo. That's something that her managment should be responsible for. They are either too bad to handle it well and Avril is blindly trusting them or it is Avril who for some unknown reason doesn't want bigger promotion, which I doubt. Seeing, that they actually use promo methods from 2000's makes me think that her managment is unprofessional. About Avril's current behavior. Well... as I said before. It's probably caused by people who she's surrounded by. I actually think she was more mature in early 2000s' than she's right now. Well Management is taking a About 12% cut from Avril because Avril hired them so its Avril that decides. Probably caused by people surrounded by that is on avril no one else.
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adamf83
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Post by adamf83 on Apr 23, 2019 22:06:05 GMT
I was 19 when I first became a fan of Avril and I'm 36 now and don't see myself ever stopping. I actually think due to it being the biggest gap in albums I love her more than ever now, absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say.
I really don't think it's fair comparing her with other artists. Avril is doing her thing and Taylor Swift is doing hers. I don't think Avril takes her fans for granted at all, she always says how she appreciates us. I think she is shy and introverted so might not feel that comfortable interacting with us as much as other artists do. And that is fine, she is a human being after all, not just a pop star and the property of us fans.
I'd rather Avril did things her way rather than doing things just to please us. It shows that she is being herself and I'd rather love her for that than love her for just doing things because that's what fans expect of her.
Somebody made a very good point earlier in the thread about her illness and how she sees life differently now. Agree 100% with that. She has her health back, her life back and is enjoying herself with family and friends. And she's releasing new music because that is her passion. If she wasn't passionate about it she has enough money never to work again (god forbid).
Anyway hopefully this forum will always be here. And of course I hope Avril continues making music forever. I honestly think I'd be lost without her sometimes. I've been happier than I've been in a long time since HAW came out. It would leave a big hole in my life if Avril wasn't around like it did the last six years.
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birdie2020
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Post by birdie2020 on Apr 23, 2019 23:06:39 GMT
^HAW made my life better also. I came back to the forums that had disappeared when I was on them previously (this is version 2.0). It actually made me happier listening to that album each day for a few months. Even after that has died down, I have people I can talk to on here about it and other Avril things. It's brought me back to a community that I forgot existed until February. Even if BA boards dies out someday, I think a FB group or something else will try to replace it. Wouldn't be the same.
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adamf83
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Post by adamf83 on Apr 23, 2019 23:29:32 GMT
^HAW made my life better also. I came back to the forums that had disappeared when I was on them previously (this is version 2.0). It actually made me happier listening to that album each day for a few months. Even after that has died down, I have people I can talk to on here about it and other Avril things. It's brought me back to a community that I forgot existed until February. Even if BA boards dies out someday, I think a FB group or something else will try to replace it. Wouldn't be the same. Glad to hear someone feels similar. I think we all miss the days when Avril was more commercially popular, just for the reason we heard about her more often. But in a way it's nice to have this cult of fans who can remember the good old days together and keep each other up to date with her career going forward.
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