katy
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Post by katy on Apr 23, 2024 12:33:46 GMT
The more I listen the more I feel so sad for Joe. He had so much shit from her fans this last year for no real reason and as far as we can tell his only real crime was possibly being depressed and not wanting to get married. Meanwhile she’s clearly been harbouring feelings for Matty Healy, emotionally and sexually (hi Guilty As Sin), for at least some of the time she was with Joe.
I don’t think Taylor is a bad person but she is messy as fuck. Joe had a lucky escape imo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2024 12:46:15 GMT
The more I listen the more I feel so sad for Joe. He had so much shit from her fans this last year for no real reason and as far as we can tell his only real crime was possibly being depressed and not wanting to get married. Meanwhile she’s clearly been harbouring feelings for Matty Healy, emotionally and sexually (hi Guilty As Sin), for at least some of the time she was with Joe. I don’t think Taylor is a bad person but she is messy as fuck. Joe had a lucky escape imo I mean i disagree, Taylor obviously wanted to marry him and he just strung her along. I think she was just thinking of Matty when things were going south with Joe. Joe and Taylor seemingly wanted different things so i wouldnt say a lucky escape at all, they just wanted different things. AFter 6 years together if there is no sign of being close to marriage, id get why Taylor would be exchausted and not into the relationship anymore
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2024 12:51:38 GMT
I mean what i got fromt he album, Taylor wanted to Marry Joe and wanted the realtionship to move along, she was waiting for him, nothing, she felt heartbroken , they broke up, she was so depressed and in a bad mental state, Matty took advantage of her and was like hey ill give you everything you wanted from joe,, they got together and he ghosted her basically after a while. She realized he was a shitty person and they broke up, now shes happy and in love again with Travis
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katy
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Post by katy on Apr 23, 2024 12:54:14 GMT
If he was struggling with his mental health like she alludes to then I don’t really think it’s stringing her along as such. Maybe he just wasn’t in the right mental space for it. With her history with Matty, how quickly (and more importantly how intensely) she moved onto him and that random appearance at the 1975 show last year before her and Joe broke up, I think he had a very lucky escape lol
It sounds to me like her and Joe fizzled out and she already had Matty lined up as a replacement because he was promising her all the stuff Joe didn’t give her. Just my take. Joe has definitely been unfairly victimised in all this, but interesting not by Taylor(‘s songs)
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 23, 2024 15:19:38 GMT
Yeah I think everyone expected this to be a Joe smack down album and all we really got about him is that she wanted to get married and he didn’t. I do think if he knew that she wanted marriage and he didn’t he shouldn’t have strung her along for so long though. Maybe she tried to convince herself she didn’t want those things after all so they could stay together (Lavender Haze, “do I throw out everything we built or keep it?” from YLM), it was a sunk cost for her to leave after investing so many years in their relationship and she made sacrifices to be with him. She was probably reluctantly to let it all go and desperately wanted it to work. But after a while she just couldn’t do it anymore.
People are suggesting there’s a lot more to the Matty stuff than we know, there’s rumors they dated briefly in 2014 and they’ve been friends since that time. They even worked together on stuff for Midnights which didn’t make the cut. Then of course that random appearance she had at the 1975 show shortly before she and Joe broke up. I think Taylor has had a thing for him for a long time and since they’ve been friends all this time, they even share mutual friends, I think she naturally jumped to him when she was reeling from the Joe breakup. Her and Joe were likely already having issues long before (with YLM being written as early as Dec 2021), she was probably already fantasizing about moving on with who she really wanted and viewed it as her chance. Then when things didn’t work out it left her even more devastated than before, especially because of the extreme fan backlash. I think she viewed it as like this rebellious thing she was doing then once it lost its appeal (“it wasn’t sexy once it wasn’t forbidden”) she broke it off. And this is why she was so devastated and wrote so many songs about it. I just can’t believe she’d be this heartbroken and write damn near 30 songs about someone she had a month long fling with, there’s definitely more to the story than we know I’m sure.
Side note: Videos of him keep coming up in my feed now and every time I see him or hear him talk I think to myself “THIS GUY is who Taylor Swift, the girl who can have any man she wants, is ridiculously obsessed with and heartbroken over?” 💀
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katy
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Post by katy on Apr 23, 2024 16:37:25 GMT
Yeah I agree there has to be more to it, I think it’s been bubbling for a long long time (even if just innocently as friends), she finally left Joe and he promised her everything Joe hadn’t given her and then he ghosted and she’s left without Joe, who even if they were having problems she invested an awful lot of time in and clearly did really love, and the “back up” guy who she’d obviously convinced herself was this long time love story finally come true.
I am glad there wasn’t a big drama with Joe. He did seem a sweet guy and clearly loved her even if they weren’t on the same page long term. There’s obviously still respect there as she’s really given us very little with regards to him, I don’t think she’s got much bad to say about him and she’s respecting his privacy by not even sharing much of the good/sad stuff. The bit at the end of So Long London - I loved this place for so long, had a good run, a moment of warm sun, but I’m not the one, stitches undone etc is so so sad.
I keep getting Matty stuff come up on social media too. I just can’t lol it’s bizarre to me. You’re telling me she was thinking about him writing Guilty As Sin? Fml lol we ALL know what you were up to in that song Taylor, higher your fantasy standards please 😂
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 23, 2024 16:59:39 GMT
Let’s just be glad she had a major upgrade with Travis lol
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 23, 2024 17:31:42 GMT
I’m giving the full album another listen and I wonder if loml is really more about Matty than Joe. The lyrics seem to point more to him, I’m disappointed she wrote such a devastating song about this guy instead of her 6 year relationship lol I really think only a few songs are about Joe (possibly Favorite Toys, Down Bad, and obviously So Long London). The rest seem to point to Matty with references to tattoos, drugs, going into bars, typewriters (he went on record years ago saying he loves typewriters), the “Jehovah’s Witness” suit like he wears while performing, etc. There’s just so many hints most of the songs are about him.
I hope any “fan” that sent Joe hate is eating their words. As you said, I think Taylor loves and respects him too much to have written anything bad about him and there wasn’t much to say anyway. I don’t think she wanted the fans going after him (even though they did and still are anyway). Taylor said it herself: “It’s the worst men I write best” (aka Matty, not Joe).
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 23, 2024 17:36:39 GMT
With all the stuff coming out about Taylor and Matty going back further than previously believed, a lot of fans are now wondering if he partially inspired folklore (the 1 and cardigan for example). She said “This one’s for you, you know who you are. I love you” just before performing cardigan on tour right at the time they were dating and he also said this exact same phrase. The lyrics and teenage love triangle theme would make so much more sense now in that context, especially since she references Peter Pan in both cardigan and Peter, which fans believe to be about Matty. I really wonder if the “teenage love triangle” wasn’t so fictional after all. And she simply gender swapped the characters so that it’s 2 females and one male. She’s August and Joe is Betty while Matty is James? Or she’s James and Matty is August?
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Panchali
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Post by Panchali on Apr 23, 2024 18:35:53 GMT
I like this album 💿.
I liked only a couple of songs in the last one.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Apr 23, 2024 22:51:34 GMT
I don’t believe the folklore love triangle theory being connected to Matty. It just doesn’t make sense.
I got the impression Down Bad was about Matty. Taylor said in a radio clip explaining the inspiration behind the song being abducted by an alien, basically being enamored by the experience and being left with despair after being put back on earth, discarded, and left stranded. And that doesn’t feel like an analogy that could be used for a 6 year relationship.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Apr 23, 2024 23:45:55 GMT
Yeah I think the thing that made me think that is she says “crying at the gym” and while I know that can just be a generic line, we know she trained hard leading up to the tour and she and Joe broke up just before the tour started so I was wondering if maybe she was thinking about their breakup as she was getting ready for tour. But obviously with the alien explanation Matty would make more sense.
I have to say while TTPD is full of great songs I’m really looking forward to her doing maybe an upbeat pop album with love songs again (I think I posted that before a page or so back but I thought of it again after I got done listening another time through). So High School is a highlight of the album that’s really needed between all these darker songs. I’d be up for an album of songs like that (but less 2000s sounding obviously lol). I wonder if she is already working on another album, I mean I think she’s pretty much always writing? And she’s been off tour for a couple months now where she’d have plenty of time to write more music. Imagine if TS12 is about finding Travis and then the lucky TS13 album is finally the one where she gets married and the prophecy has changed.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Apr 24, 2024 2:12:10 GMT
^ Yeah the crying at the gym line is probably just her attempt at trying to put it in perspective of an average person doing an everyday normal activity but that’s also true for herself.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Apr 24, 2024 2:35:54 GMT
It was pointed out how this album seems like it’s quantity over quality, but I think Taylor’s goal wasn’t pristine quality this time around. Maybe she didn’t want a tight-nip album. I get the impression that she just wanted to let loose. That she wanted to get together with her favorite collaborators - Jack and Aaron - pump out some songs and smack together an album that she liked. I’m sure there are still some songs she could’ve weeded out and left behind or maybe just song ideas that she decided not to finish for the album. But I think this was just supposed to be “her” album this time around - making it because she wanted to, making it because she could, making it because she was enjoying the process, and making it because she didn’t have to take it too seriously. At this point, I don’t think she cares if someone critiques a song that she puts out as “weak” or unsubstantial compared to her past work. I think she understands that she can’t keep topping herself. That she won’t always be doing A+ work if the bar keeps moving.
But if that was her approach with this album, only time will tell if she will return to trying to perfectly curate her future albums with tight tracklists and cohesion.
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lbs2022
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Post by lbs2022 on Apr 24, 2024 3:57:57 GMT
Yeah I think the thing that made me think that is she says “crying at the gym” and while I know that can just be a generic line, we know she trained hard leading up to the tour and she and Joe broke up just before the tour started so I was wondering if maybe she was thinking about their breakup as she was getting ready for tour. But obviously with the alien explanation Matty would make more sense. I have to say while TTPD is full of great songs I’m really looking forward to her doing maybe an upbeat pop album with love songs again (I think I posted that before a page or so back but I thought of it again after I got done listening another time through). So High School is a highlight of the album that’s really needed between all these darker songs. I’d be up for an album of songs like that (but less 2000s sounding obviously lol). I wonder if she is already working on another album, I mean I think she’s pretty much always writing? And she’s been off tour for a couple months now where she’d have plenty of time to write more music. Imagine if TS12 is about finding Travis and then the lucky TS13 album is finally the one where she gets married and the prophecy has changed. Honestly i loved how 2000s sounding SHS sounded it took me back to fearless days. I always have trouble with when people say oh this song couldve also been on this album, but SHS i was instantly like fearless song. It felt magical to me and. just loved it so much
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