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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 1:37:26 GMT
I was so excited for her original vision with the country vibe. Now Iโm not v excited at all I really hope she doesnโt think she has to follow the crowd....something uniquely โAvrilโ might take her back up where she should be and make a lot of us happy too.
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TomX
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Post by TomX on Dec 23, 2017 4:53:54 GMT
I agree. I definitely think that going back to her older sound and style would give her fairly more popularity, more sales and even bigger tours around the world. She won't be successful repeating the pop formula for the fourth time in a row, anyway. That's what she needs to do, see where the market is for her. At this point, she has nothing to lose, so it's worth the shot, isn't it?
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Post by Jack on Dec 23, 2017 5:06:31 GMT
I was so excited for her original vision with the country vibe. Now Iโm not v excited at all I really hope she doesnโt think she has to follow the crowd....something uniquely โAvrilโ might take her back up where she should be and make a lot of us happy too. I wholeheartedly agree. What is really weird is that she seems to be "experimenting" with so many different sounds. Electronic, jazz, rock, etc. I don't really know what to expect from this album. I don't want it to be a hot mess like AL was, which had no real direction and seemed more like a bunch of individual songs being put together, probably because half of the album was made in 2012 and the other half was made in 2013 with essentially new people. I think she should stick to pop-rock, with perhaps a few influences from every genre I mentioned before that she's been experimenting with this year. Perhaps "update" her sound a bit to make it more appealing to new audiences but also to old fans, but not completely ditch her essence just to appeal to what GP likes nowadays and get a top-10 again. And let's hope she still releases a personal/meaningful and no more immature MF princess moments, please...
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Dec 23, 2017 14:10:00 GMT
A song isn't good or bad based on its genre. A song is good based on its melody, lyrics, meaning, etc. Not all jazz is boring. Not all country or gospel has to be about God, etc. Just because a song is rock doesn't automatically make it a good song and just because a song is electronic doesn't automatically mean it's bad. It amazes me how close-minded some of you are about genres of music. I personally love listening to all types of music and I would be so bored if I only listened to one or two genres of music. You may be surprised at what you like if you try expanding your horizons a bit. For example, a lot of people commented how amazing Avril's voice sounded on songs like Wings Clipped and Baby It's Cold Outside, even though both those songs are outside of what she'd normally do.
I took a jazz course in college and while some of the music didn't resonate with me and it was indeed boring, this isn't true for the genre as a whole. There's many fantastic jazz songs out there, just as there's many great pop, rock, country, gospel, etc. songs. As I said, the genre doesn't automatically make a song good or bad. There's good and bad songs in every genre. A lot of people maybe are not hopeful for anything electronic from Avril because of Hello Kitty - that's because Hello Kitty is not a great example of an electronic song. As I think someone else mentioned, with a different producer handling it, it could have probably been better. And of course if she wrote different lyrics or about a different subject. I don't dislike Hello Kitty and I know many fans do love it, but objectively speaking, let's be honest and say it's probably not the finest example of an electronic song.
That doesn't mean that if she worked with real EDM producers who know the genre and wrote something mature, that the song couldn't turn out to be great. It goes back to my point that the genre doesn't necessarily define the quality of a song - it's the song's melody, structure, lyrics, meaning, etc. that make it good or bad. And how it's produced can make or break the song as well. Many songs on GL for example could have gone from just good to great if they were produced better. Many fans have commented that 17 could have been fantastic if it was produced better. So if there's a certain genre she wants to try and works with people who actually know what they're doing, it could turn out really well. As opposed to working with someone who isn't experienced in the genre and it turns out crappy. It'd be like asking Max Martin to produce a rock song. Now would you say that because the song is rock it's automatically good? No. Max Martin's specialty is in pop and his songs generally turn out very good because he knows the genre. Anything else produced by him would probably not be as good.
I don't think Avril returning to her "old sound" is honestly going to be a successful move for her at all. I'm not sure how popular pop/rock or pop/punk music is in 2017/2018. I know bands like 5 Seconds of Summer are actually pretty popular, but it also helps they are a group of cute boys. The pop rock and pop punk stuff is Avril's signature sound and always has been, but I get the sense she has wanted to start moving away from that since Goodbye Lullaby. I think she enjoys making a rock song here and there, like Bad Girl, something she can rock out to in concert, but her last couple of albums have been full of ballads.
If she wants to make a few upbeat rock songs to balance out an album or to have for live shows, that's fine. But I think by now that sound has been played out. She has done 3 albums of that sound. It worked for her when she was young, but now I think that she is a grown adult who has gone through a lot of stuff and is no longer one of the fresh-faced artists in pop, she should try to reinvent herself into an adult contemporary artist. Artists like Adele and Ed Sheeran are very very successful with this. Adults enjoy listening to this. Most of her fans now are grown. I've seen lots of comments from fans who said they enjoyed her early albums when they were young but kind of grew out of them. I myself don't find myself listening to her early music much anymore, though I still love it. But I've just grown tired of it by now because I've heard it so many times. I just want something new and fresh from her. Something unexpected. She will never evolve as an artist if she keeps making the same kind of music she did when she was a teenager. And on top it, I disagree it would be successful at all. I think she'd flop so fast she wouldn't even have a chance if she released music like that. It's 2017/2018, not 2004.
In any case, I think it's silly to automatically write off a song before even hearing anything based on who is working on it. Just because the people she's working with are of a certain genre doesn't necessarily mean the song is that genre. It doesn't mean that song will be bad because it could be a certain genre. Look at how many people loved Wings Clipped, even if they didn't so much like the electronic part. All the collaborations she did like Listen, Wings Clipped, and Baby It's Cold Outside I think could be an indication of what direction she's going for with this album. Because why would she have agreed to be on those songs if she didn't like them or like their genres? Listen is pop/rock but kind of a modern take on it, Wings Clipped is electronic with some pop, rock, and Latin influences, and BICO is jazz. Maybe all these genres wouldn't work together on the same album, but maybe she just wants to experiment and see what she feels would work best.
My only hope is that the original version of AL6 hasn't been scrapped too much. I expect some songs may get switched out for others, or songs have probably been recorded many times to get the sound right. But I hope she hasn't abandoned the idea of making a raw and personal album about her illness.
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Red
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Post by Red on Dec 23, 2017 15:05:32 GMT
A song isn't good or bad based on its genre. A song is good based on its melody, lyrics, meaning, etc. Not all jazz is boring. Not all country or gospel has to be about God, etc. Just because a song is rock doesn't automatically make it a good song and just because a song is electronic doesn't automatically mean it's bad. It amazes me how close-minded some of you are about genres of music. I personally love listening to all types of music and I would be so bored if I only listened to one or two genres of music. You may be surprised at what you like if you try expanding your horizons a bit. For example, a lot of people commented how amazing Avril's voice sounded on songs like Wings Clipped and Baby It's Cold Outside, even though both those songs are outside of what she'd normally do. I took a jazz course in college and while some of the music didn't resonate with me and it was indeed boring, this isn't true for the genre as a whole. There's many fantastic jazz songs out there, just as there's many great pop, rock, country, gospel, etc. songs. As I said, the genre doesn't automatically make a song good or bad. There's good and bad songs in every genre. A lot of people maybe are not hopeful for anything electronic from Avril because of Hello Kitty - that's because Hello Kitty is not a great example of an electronic song. As I think someone else mentioned, with a different producer handling it, it could have probably been better. And of course if she wrote different lyrics or about a different subject. I don't dislike Hello Kitty and I know many fans do love it, but objectively speaking, let's be honest and say it's probably not the finest example of an electronic song. That doesn't mean that if she worked with real EDM producers who know the genre and wrote something mature, that the song couldn't turn out to be great. It goes back to my point that the genre doesn't necessarily define the quality of a song - it's the song's melody, structure, lyrics, meaning, etc. that make it good or bad. And how it's produced can make or break the song as well. Many songs on GL for example could have gone from just good to great if they were produced better. Many fans have commented that 17 could have been fantastic if it was produced better. So if there's a certain genre she wants to try and works with people who actually know what they're doing, it could turn out really well. As opposed to working with someone who isn't experienced in the genre and it turns out crappy. It'd be like asking Max Martin to produce a rock song. Now would you say that because the song is rock it's automatically good? No. Max Martin's specialty is in pop and his songs generally turn out very good because he knows the genre. Anything else produced by him would probably not be as good. I don't think Avril returning to her "old sound" is honestly going to be a successful move for her at all. I'm not sure how popular pop/rock or pop/punk music is in 2017/2018. I know bands like 5 Seconds of Summer are actually pretty popular, but it also helps they are a group of cute boys. The pop rock and pop punk stuff is Avril's signature sound and always has been, but I get the sense she has wanted to start moving away from that since Goodbye Lullaby. I think she enjoys making a rock song here and there, like Bad Girl, something she can rock out to in concert, but her last couple of albums have been full of ballads. If she wants to make a few upbeat rock songs to balance out an album or to have for live shows, that's fine. But I think by now that sound has been played out. She has done 3 albums of that sound. It worked for her when she was young, but now I think that she is a grown adult who has gone through a lot of stuff and is no longer one of the fresh-faced artists in pop, she should try to reinvent herself into an adult contemporary artist. Artists like Adele and Ed Sheeran are very very successful with this. Adults enjoy listening to this. Most of her fans now are grown. I've seen lots of comments from fans who said they enjoyed her early albums when they were young but kind of grew out of them. I myself don't find myself listening to her early music much anymore, though I still love it. But I've just grown tired of it by now because I've heard it so many times. I just want something new and fresh from her. Something unexpected. She will never evolve as an artist if she keeps making the same kind of music she did when she was a teenager. And on top it, I disagree it would be successful at all. I think she'd flop so fast she wouldn't even have a chance if she released music like that. It's 2017/2018, not 2004. In any case, I think it's silly to automatically write off a song before even hearing anything based on who is working on it. Just because the people she's working with are of a certain genre doesn't necessarily mean the song is that genre. It doesn't mean that song will be bad because it could be a certain genre. Look at how many people loved Wings Clipped, even if they didn't so much like the electronic part. All the collaborations she did like Listen, Wings Clipped, and Baby It's Cold Outside I think could be an indication of what direction she's going for with this album. Because why would she have agreed to be on those songs if she didn't like them or like their genres? Listen is pop/rock but kind of a modern take on it, Wings Clipped is electronic with some pop, rock, and Latin influences, and BICO is jazz. Maybe all these genres wouldn't work together on the same album, but maybe she just wants to experiment and see what she feels would work best. My only hope is that the original version of AL6 hasn't been scrapped too much. I expect some songs may get switched out for others, or songs have probably been recorded many times to get the sound right. But I hope she hasn't abandoned the idea of making a raw and personal album about her illness. Wow. Totally agree
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 17:46:07 GMT
All that is well and good Bogo, but I thought a general consensus around here (I even thought you were in agreement with it, but maybe not) was we are hoping for real instruments and not some generic lazy EDM loop that is everywhere these days. Itโs not about who likes or dislikes what genre, itโs about her pushing the envelope again. There is always room in the music bizz for something unique, in fact itโs what drives the whole thing.
And what you said about a producer not necessarily always sticking with the same genre and thatโs not a bad thing, doesnโt jibe with the example you used about Max Martin making a rock song.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Dec 23, 2017 18:22:13 GMT
I mean real instruments is always preferable over programmed beats. But on the other hand, artists and producers who really know how to use electronic instruments in creative ways can really make a song interesting too. Taylor's new album is a great example of that. Almost all the songs, maybe except New Year's Day, use synths and beats, but they all sound great. Taylor and the producers worked with the electronic instruments in ways that were unique and suited the songs. It can work when it's done right. The issue with Avril is that in her situation it's never been done well because the producers just weren't that good or didn't understand how to produce such music (for example, Martin Johnson doing Hello Kitty).
I used Max Martin as an extreme example to show that the production of a song can make all the difference in how it sounds. Max generally produces pop and electronic music, if you wanted to make a rock song you'd find a rock producer. That, however, doesn't apply to all producers. Every producer has their specialty of what genre they do, but many producers can be versatile and produce for different genres and different kinds of artists. That's why it's dumb to assume because she's working with a certain type of writer or producer that the song will sound like whatever they do, when that isn't necessarily the case. Just like no one would have ever expected Avril to do songs like GYWYL or Wings Clipped, etc. Artists can be versatile and so can producers and writers. They may have one genre they are best at, but that doesn't mean that's all they do or can do. A good producer can adapt to the artist and incorporate some of their own style into the song.
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Post by Hellelujah on Dec 23, 2017 18:39:13 GMT
Agree. Like some of you mentioned Avril will have jazz influences because of Rotem. I'm confused, I thought Rotem's main sound was R&B then Pop and Hip Hop. The only jazz influence I see is Zane. I truly believe she's doing songs of a particular sound with people who knows how to do it. We don't know who's producing Don't Stop probably the song is a electro-ballad or a mix of two sounds.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Dec 23, 2017 20:36:47 GMT
Agree. Like some of you mentioned Avril will have jazz influences because of Rotem. I'm confused, I thought Rotem's main sound was R&B then Pop and Hip Hop. The only jazz influence I see is Zane. I truly believe she's doing songs of a particular sound with people who knows how to do it. We don't know who's producing Don't Stop probably the song is a electro-ballad or a mix of two sounds.ย Rotem studied jazz composition at the Berklee College of Music.
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โnikiโ
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Post by โnikiโ on Dec 23, 2017 20:56:50 GMT
Okay, so can somebody sum up Andrea's post? I usually love reading her post but in the middle of Christhmas I don't have time to sit down and read a lot but I really would like to know what Andrea was talking about
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 21:38:25 GMT
I think she said some producers can handle different genres except Max Martin. Heโs only good at pop. Which seems sorta obvious.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Dec 23, 2017 22:18:06 GMT
Okay, so can somebody sum up Andrea's post? I usually love reading her post but in the middle of Christhmas I don't have time to sit down and read a lot but I really would like to know what Andrea was talking about - Genre doesnโt make a song good or bad - Just because sheโs working with writers/producers who generally do electronic music doesnโt mean thatโs what the song sounds like - Even if she is doing electronic music, it doesnโt mean it will be bad Basically too much assumption going on and narrow-mindedness about genres IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 22:38:02 GMT
Is too much to assume itโs gonna suck no matter what? Just KIDDING. (But Iโm hoping for no EDM).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 23:44:47 GMT
I agree with what BogoGog24 says, but I'm more critical on another point: the above discussion would be valid if you were an artist eager to experiment more genres with freedom and desire, studying different musical genres and being helped by the best producers. I love music and every genre: I like, for example, the electronic music of Alanis Morissette and Bjork. But I'm of the opinion that only a great artist can experiment freely and use the most diverse genres with real inspiration. Nobody excludes at the moment that Avril has produced a very great pieces so inspired by house or electronic genre. But I have a doubt: she's a pop singer who has already resorted to the number one with very conventional genres and pre-established patterns, with poorly inspired lyrics and badly produced music (this, from what we know, due to certain pressures coming from record companies). This leads me to fear (in the absence of confirmation, sure) that this has happened again and a compromise has led to produce a hit totally lacking in quality, degrading to her image and below her real capable. I'm absolutely convinced that Avril can produce a great piece of success with any genre, provided that are not imposed commercial and merchant criteria. I would like a single with electronic sound like Push, 17, 4 Real or YASNY, or totally electronic pieces like the songs on the record 'Flawless an Entanglement' by Alanis, for example. But I wouldn't tolerete a house song that explains how 'nice' it's to go dancing in the disco, get drunk and dance in a lewd way with the boys (as is customary among pop stars). I realize that it's a brutal and steriotyped schematization, but I honestly don't think are differnt the electronic songs of the pop stars who want to sell and the record companies need. I think that for a long time Avril, both for the lack of motivation derived from compromises and for the people with whom she is forced to work, is no longer able to converge the need to write good quality singles that have very big success: I'm not underestimating her, I'm saying that she has imposed in this years the perspective for which writing a hit means writing a simple and anonymous song on very adolescent topics (I'm well aware of the huge chasm that separates the way we fans understand and interpret certain Avril's songs and how they are received by the public, especially the mature grown with her first two record and has criticized her already since Girlfriend). This applies to the songs of every musical genre, whether it be dance or country or rock. I don't want to be misunderstood: I like her last singles and I really like the last record. I am open to experimentations and innovations. But at the same time I realize the real potential of her and the artistic maturity she needs to reach: poetic texts, more complex music, better voice, deep themes (what Avril said she has did in that famous Billboard article). This doesn't mean being boring or heavy, you can do it with lightness. This is possible even with a single, in my opinion, and I could bring myriads of good examples. I'm absolutely convinced that Avrils knows it too, but she hasn't been in the condition of being able to do so in the last few years. If Avril releases electronic music like the songs you will see below I would be very happy (I hate to compare the artists, I think everyone is unique and doesn't have to imitate the other, but the examples are useful to understand each other better). Unfortunately based on the experiences and the logic of the music market I don't have much confidence. I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by Blackarachnia on Dec 24, 2017 1:35:35 GMT
I like electronic music... Ace of Base, t.A.T.u., Kylie, and Britney are favorites of mine, but thatโs not why I like Avril. The reason I like the idea of a country/gospel/jazz record is because it would be a very serious and artistic genre for Avril to try... I actually do not listen to those genres at all, but I think for Avril it would be a nice throwback to her county fair days as well as something new for her and fresh from all the soulless pop that overruns the radio. Electronic Avril could be good... I like What the Hell and Rock โn Roll, but I feel like that genre wouldnโt have been chosen for an artistic reason, but to make money. So it would be soulless like everything else out there. Sure it may be catchy, but I like heart in my music. I haven't made up my mind on anything since we havenโt heard any of the songs yet, and I am going to keep an open mind when listening to the album, but my expectations are set pretty low.
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