katy
Member
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 11:48:03 GMT
Posts: 4,829
Likes: 14,515
Last Online: May 10, 2024 5:12:51 GMT
|
Post by katy on Oct 4, 2017 15:12:00 GMT
It sounds like you've already given up any hope of the laws changing which is sad. If the democratic process works properly a majority of people should sway laws to change. Maybe my opinion seems quite idealistic or naive but I think you have to have faith in the democratic process otherwise you've got nothing. I never thought the smoking ban would work in this country but it did. I've been a non-smoker for 10 years now. There's a smoking ban in the UK? I recently moved here and I haven't seen this many people smoking since the 90s back home lol. Haha, it's banned in confined public places, so pubs, shopping centres, sports grounds, bus stops etc
|
|
katy
Member
Join Date: Mar 14, 2015 11:48:03 GMT
Posts: 4,829
Likes: 14,515
Last Online: May 10, 2024 5:12:51 GMT
|
Post by katy on Oct 4, 2017 15:14:06 GMT
Hmph. I've gone right off you. Hang on Katy, I know you don't mean to minimize our role in helping Britain defeat the Nazi's. You can't just turn up at the last minute and take all the credit I'm joking, good work team (high five emoji I have no idea how to do)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:15:46 GMT
Ok Blizz, sorry and I will comply.
The irony of it all is I'm as sad/shocked/mad as every other good person about these senseless tragic murders by evil crazy monsters. I really wish we lived in a world where all these weapons weren't necessary and for a while it seemed we were all heading in that direction. But now the whole world is in such turmoil that people are unfortunately taking the position that it's almost a free for all. And that is sad.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:19:23 GMT
Hang on Katy, I know you don't mean to minimize our role in helping Britain defeat the Nazi's. You can't just turn up at the last minute and take all the credit I'm joking, good work team (high five emoji I have no idea how to do) I'm relieved since I adore your post and viewpoints.
|
|
Avengium
Member
MOTM January '16, MOTM October '17
Taylor Swift: "Relating with fans since 1989" 😍
Join Date: Oct 19, 2015 10:15:16 GMT
Posts: 2,247
Likes: 1,741
Location: España, Madrid, Linea 6, Metro Lucero
Last Online: Sept 8, 2019 13:04:46 GMT
|
Post by Avengium on Oct 4, 2017 15:22:06 GMT
Like usual, i understand both points of view. But is very difficult sometimes for a lot of us, humans, to keep in memory all the parts of our arguments. So, often we defend contradictory statements. Like is happening right now in this thread.
For example an statement "i need guns to protect me" and also: "i need guns to protect me from corrupt government" is because where people that think that lives, is insecure or very likely to be in revolts, assaults, etc.
"If you don't feel insecure and unprotected, you don't constantly think about your protection." i think this statement is true.
We have millions of unprotected people in the world nowadays. Not only on the 20th century. And these unprotected people think in their own lives. And they maybe feel unprotected or maybe not.
And we have also people that feels secure on their houses.
There are a great difference between countries. We all know that. And we all know that this extends to different levels.
But for example. One question. To not lose the focus of the current debate. "Are we talking about gun control on the usa?" and also, a second question: "Are we using the statement: "i need guns to protect me from corrupt government" to defend a "pro-gun" discourse in the usa?.
Third Question: Are people in usa frightened because they need guns to fight a corrupt government like the ones on other countries (like Nazis) and also right now in this moment in other countries?
I think is a nonsense to use the argument of Ethnic purges, and genocides when we are talking about the question: "Should be guns more regulated on the usa?"
Because is a nonsense to think that you need to protect your ethnic minority from the government of usa if you aren't from a minority. That reminds me Ayn Rands who said: "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand. because Ayn Rand was ultra-individualist. And also she was very romanticist. A philosophy from 19th century.
|
|
paperbackwriter
Member
Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me I am not mistaken in mine
Join Date: Sept 26, 2015 22:36:59 GMT
Posts: 202
Likes: 601
Location: Ithilien
Last Online: Jul 31, 2023 16:44:31 GMT
|
Post by paperbackwriter on Oct 4, 2017 15:29:13 GMT
Here is how I personally feel about gun ownership. I don't like guns, I never have. I don't want to be around them because I don't trust myself not to use one on myself (I have issues with depression). That being said I can understand why some people want to have a handgun for protection of their property or a hunting riffle for hunting and I don't see how it would be possible to take these things away from people. However, I believe it should be illegal to own a semi-automatic riffle that is designed specifically to kill multiple people. A riffle that can be legal made into an automatic riffle with an adjustment bought on eBay. It is illegal to buy an automatic riffle off the shelf but not illegal to buy a semi-automatic and make it an automatic..... Anyway I personally don't believe the general population should have access to these kinds of weapons. Just look at the guy who carried off the massacre in Las Vegas. There was nothing in his background that would stop him from being able to buy multiple semi-automatic riffles. We have to draw the line somewhere. I don't see anything ever happening that will make it illegal to own a handgun or hunting riffle.
Anyway I find it interesting that Avril spoke out about this since she is usually silent about politics.
|
|
Avengium
Member
MOTM January '16, MOTM October '17
Taylor Swift: "Relating with fans since 1989" 😍
Join Date: Oct 19, 2015 10:15:16 GMT
Posts: 2,247
Likes: 1,741
Location: España, Madrid, Linea 6, Metro Lucero
Last Online: Sept 8, 2019 13:04:46 GMT
|
Post by Avengium on Oct 4, 2017 15:36:10 GMT
Yes. I liked that too. She said: "if you think that, act". Is a proactive message. Has nothing wrong.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:47:53 GMT
Like usual, i understand both points of view. But is very difficult sometimes for a lot of us, humans, to keep in memory all the parts of our arguments. So, often we defend contradictory statements. Like is happening right now in this thread. For example an statement "i need guns to protect me" and also: "i need guns to protect me from corrupt government" is because where people that think that lives, is insecure or very likely to be in revolts, assaults, etc. "If you don't feel insecure and unprotected, you don't constantly think about your protection." i think this statement is true. We have millions of unprotected people in the world nowadays. Not only on the 20th century. And these unprotected people think in their own lives. And they maybe feel unprotected or maybe not. And we have also people that feels secure on their houses. There are a great difference between countries. We all know that. And we all know that this extends to different levels. But for example. One question. To not lose the focus of the current debate. "Are we talking about gun control on the usa?" and also, a second question: "Are we using the statement: "i need guns to protect me from corrupt government" to defend a "pro-gun" discourse in the usa?. Third Question: Are people in usa frightened because they need guns to fight a corrupt government like the ones on other countries (like Nazis) and also right now in this moment in other countries? I think is a nonsense to use the argument of Ethnic purges, and genocides when we are talking about the question: "Should be guns more regulated on the usa?" Because is a nonsense to think that you need to protect your ethnic minority from the government of usa if you aren't from a minority. That reminds me Ayn Rands who said: "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand. because Ayn Rand was ultra-individualist. And also she was very romanticist. A philosophy from 19th century. Ayn Rand would have spoke loudest about individual rights to own guns. She was ultra conservative. To answer your question from my viewpoint....the folks who got "cleaned" may have thought the same thing. And so gun advocates here believe it protects them from both criminals and a government gone wild. Google "armed militia" and how it applies to our Constitution if you care to learn more. We have a saying here that some attribute to Thomas Jefferson (others aren't so sure he said it). "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have." Think about it.......?
|
|
Avengium
Member
MOTM January '16, MOTM October '17
Taylor Swift: "Relating with fans since 1989" 😍
Join Date: Oct 19, 2015 10:15:16 GMT
Posts: 2,247
Likes: 1,741
Location: España, Madrid, Linea 6, Metro Lucero
Last Online: Sept 8, 2019 13:04:46 GMT
|
Post by Avengium on Oct 4, 2017 15:51:24 GMT
I agree with the quote.
|
|
ben545
Member
MOTM March '16 - Banned
“If you ever need anything please don’t hesitate to ask someone else first.” Kurt Cobain
Join Date: Jun 28, 2015 9:36:36 GMT
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 2,899
Location: Birmingham
Last Online: Mar 12, 2022 8:49:47 GMT
|
Post by ben545 on Oct 4, 2017 15:52:23 GMT
I quite enjoyed working for the Americans. Did a lot of work for NAZCAR Racing cars in that job. In my next job we were receiving self service check out counters made in the USA. It works both ways we are trading partners. I don't have anything against Americans. I'm proud of the work I've done for America. It's still a wild place, like the wild west. It hasn't been tamed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 16:14:33 GMT
Have you ever been here?
|
|
ben545
Member
MOTM March '16 - Banned
“If you ever need anything please don’t hesitate to ask someone else first.” Kurt Cobain
Join Date: Jun 28, 2015 9:36:36 GMT
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 2,899
Location: Birmingham
Last Online: Mar 12, 2022 8:49:47 GMT
|
Post by ben545 on Oct 4, 2017 16:32:58 GMT
Yeah, twice. I went to California for 3 weeks when I was 16 and I went to New York for 10 days to celebrate the millennium in 2000 when I was 20. I went up the World Trade Centers. I like America I just can't get my fucking head round your gun laws. Sorry.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Join Date: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
Posts: 0
Likes:
Last Online: May 10, 2024 7:40:51 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 16:39:58 GMT
Glad you saw them before they got taken out. Guess we’re still a little twitchy about all that over here. Stupidity, and all.
|
|
marliz.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 11, 2015 22:15:13 GMT
Posts: 547
Likes: 1,465
Last Online: Apr 1, 2024 18:32:03 GMT
|
Post by marliz. on Oct 4, 2017 17:03:00 GMT
I disagree about the mental illness part. While mental illnesses usually are the main reason for incidents like these, it couldnt/shouldnt have happened without the easy access to those weapons. Yes, people can always get them illegally if they really want to, but I think most people wouldnt do so much effort for it. The easy access may just be the final ‘fuck it’ for them to actually do it. Plus, and I can use in the Vegas case as an example, there was no sign of the guy being mentally ill (even though he was bc you must be pretty fucked in the head to be capable of doing that shit). Something in him probably just snapped and he went and did the crime. But how can you check something like that to be able to prevent these incidents?
- I think a lot of cases involving deaths by guns, apart from mass shootings like that, are not planned beforehand and can be prevented by much stricter gun laws. And don’t come with bullshit ‘I need a gun to protect myself’ argument. Speaking of root problems: you wouldn’t need one if it wasn’t so easy for criminals to get one.
|
|
Becky
Retired Staff
MOTM May '17
Things don't change, we do
Join Date: Apr 12, 2015 15:23:24 GMT
Posts: 1,232
Likes: 2,058
Location: UK
Last Online: Oct 14, 2019 6:17:19 GMT
|
Post by Becky on Oct 4, 2017 17:10:26 GMT
Especially since without us, he'd be living in Nazi Germany right now. You're only independent because France helped you and we couldn't be bothered to keep fighting for you I never know what to think on it, considering I couldn't believe the propaganda and potentially incorrect things I read in Boston and D.C. regarding WWII, but then the British don't teach it unbiased either. The Holocaust museum in Washington did bother me at points though, saying that the Allied Forces didn't do anything and it wasn't until the US joined. Eh? What could we have done? Especially considering the US were in the war way before the liberation of the camps and weren't in the war (rightly so, don't blame them) until Hitler declared war on them. But yeah, was just a shock when the museum was asking if countries like Hungary, Lithuania etc. were to blame for not stopping the Nazi's taking over them. Hungary declared they weren't going to be in the war and Germany were stronger than these countries - simple as. You fight back, you die. It really bothered me. The other museums were fab though haha. It was just that section of the Holocaust one. Aaaand I'm off topic again, maybe we need a history thread. (If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me with sources, I like to learn ) But Bogo articulated it a lot better than I did and made a better point. While I don't agree with gun laws, he got them illegally. And sure people will always find a way and you won't end crime, but there are just so many shootings in the US. Wouldn't it be better to try and lessen the ways to kill people? It is literally a method of harm. But I know it's not that easy. Everyone should have an opinion and speak their opinion on world events as long as they never try to impose it on others.
|
|