imwiththesk8erboi
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Post by imwiththesk8erboi on Nov 8, 2020 14:22:07 GMT
Interesting theory but sorry, it is not true. Her initial contract was only for 2 albums anyway, so after UMS was complete she was either going to resign with Arista or move to another label. But by that time Arista folded so she couldn’t resign with them even if she wanted to and that’s why she went to another label. Arista was probably the most supportive label she ever worked with, even if they made her compromise a bit on LG to make it more pop, I think that’s a compromise she was willing to make. With UMS, she didn’t show the label anything until she was done. At that point it may have been possible they went back and cut certain songs, for example there was a political song she had written about a serial killer that was in the news a lot at the time but the label refused to put it on the album. She also would have preferred MHE as the lead single. There are always going to be several unreleased songs from every album, it doesn’t mean the label didn’t want to release them, but just that there’s a limit as to how many can be on one album. Some were going to have to get left on the cutting room floor and they could have been rejected by Avril herself thinking they weren’t good enough. I think overall UMS is what Avril wanted it to be, even if she couldn’t release the political song or a few others. I don’t think the label was that afraid of her doing a rock album since her first album did so well that whatever she put out afterwards would sell since people were really looking forward to it. And it did - it sold way more in its first week than any album she put out before or since. I really think Forgotten is just another song on the album about her breakup with Jesse, it is pretty obvious most of the album is about him since they dated just before she started work on it, but anyone’s free to interpret the songs how they want. I think the theory could make sense within that context, the lyrics could definitely fit in that narrative, but I just don’t think she had issues with Arista that would warrant a song about it and she also changed labels because the label folded, not because she hated them. So it doesn’t add up. I didn't know all of those details 😯 Thanks for telling me, although now my new interpretation doesn't really add up anymore 😄 I guess if you switch out the record label with any other person she had contact with businesswise, it could still work 😉 I just really would like to click with that song again, because UMS is and remains my favorite album by her. And the only way for me to do that, is to change the story behind it.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Nov 8, 2020 14:34:07 GMT
I always wondered why she only got a two record deal back then. I don't think a 2-album deal was that unusual back then. Considering she was an unknown at the time and they signed her without even hearing a demo tape, 2 albums is quite generous I think. They didn't know how successful she was going to be so 2 albums was probably enough of a gamble for them.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Nov 8, 2020 14:41:38 GMT
Come to think of it, I was just thinking about this randomly the other day, but I think all of her record contracts over the entire course of her career have always either been for 2 albums or 5 years, whichever came first.
Arista - 2000 - 2005? (not quite sure when she ended her deal with them, an article on Wikipedia says Arista merged with another label to form RCA Music Group in 2005) 2 albums
RCA - 2006? - 2011 2 albums
Epic - 2011 - 2016? 1 album, probably was supposed to record 2 albums but couldn't record the second album due to Lyme, if she was signed for a certain number of years, her contract would have ended before she was finally able to record the second album
BMG - 2017 - present, if the 5-year pattern follows, her contract should end in 2022, so we'll see what happens then 1 album so far, currently recording a second
This is just my speculation, I don't know much about how labels work or the music industry, but this seems to be the pattern for her.
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orangesky
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Post by orangesky on Nov 8, 2020 18:07:37 GMT
RCA and Arista appear to have been connected companies since the 80s, with RCA being almost a sort of parent company to Arista and having a controlling stake in them. According to the back of my UMS cd the album was released by Arista and RCA together. I think it was clear by 2004 the label was going under so she didn't really leave Arista for RCA. It was more that Arista folded and RCA offered ongoing contracts with their connected label for artists they didn't want to lose. It was just sort of a merger.
In regards to her Epic contract, I recall that beinga 2 album deal as well but we only got one. I think some people speculated a greatests hits might happen after she got sick to use up her contract. If it was a 2 album/5 year deal it might explain some of the delay between albums if she just wanted to wai out her contract. Clearly the AL album was her weakest and she was made to write a lot with hitmakers. I also think she was unhappy after the peak of her Lyme when she was made to do an interview talking about it in early 2015. She's since said she wasn't ready and it was too soon for that.
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NowISee
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Post by NowISee on Nov 8, 2020 18:24:06 GMT
I always wondered why she only got a two record deal back then. I think it's always a good thing that artist's don't take up longer contracts. Didn't for example Kesha get stuck on her's? A lot of things can happen in a few years time, and if the contract is longer you might end up making an album with people you don't click with at all.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Nov 8, 2020 18:51:40 GMT
RCA and Arista appear to have been connected companies since the 80s, with RCA being almost a sort of parent company to Arista and having a controlling stake in them. According to the back of my UMS cd the album was released by Arista and RCA together. I think it was clear by 2004 the label was going under so she didn't really leave Arista for RCA. It was more that Arista folded and RCA offered ongoing contracts with their connected label for artists they didn't want to lose. It was just sort of a merger. In regards to her Epic contract, I recall that beinga 2 album deal as well but we only got one. I think some people speculated a greatests hits might happen after she got sick to use up her contract. If it was a 2 album/5 year deal it might explain some of the delay between albums if she just wanted to wai out her contract. Clearly the AL album was her weakest and she was made to write a lot with hitmakers. I also think she was unhappy after the peak of her Lyme when she was made to do an interview talking about it in early 2015. She's since said she wasn't ready and it was too soon for that. Wouldn't her contract with Epic have required her to do 2 "studio" albums though? I don't think releasing a GH would have gotten her out of the contract. Once she was sick with Lyme, they probably realized she wouldn't be able to put out another album and once 5 years had already passed, they probably let it slide that she didn't end up recording a second album. Or maybe she had really good lawyers that got her out of it.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Nov 8, 2020 18:53:53 GMT
I always wondered why she only got a two record deal back then. I think it's always a good thing that artist's don't take up longer contracts. Didn't for example Kesha get stuck on her's? A lot of things can happen in a few years time, and if the contract is longer you might end up making an album with people you don't click with at all. Yeah like what happened with Taylor is that she was signed as a teenager to 6 albums. Even at a release schedule of an album every 2 years, that contract would last over a decade. As we saw, it ended up coming back to kind of bite her in the ass being held up in a contract for that long. The 2 album/5 year contracts have seemed to work out for the most part for Avril, especially since she seems to have issues with every label she signs with. Best she doesn't stay with one too long I guess.
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orangesky
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Post by orangesky on Nov 8, 2020 20:30:08 GMT
RCA and Arista appear to have been connected companies since the 80s, with RCA being almost a sort of parent company to Arista and having a controlling stake in them. According to the back of my UMS cd the album was released by Arista and RCA together. I think it was clear by 2004 the label was going under so she didn't really leave Arista for RCA. It was more that Arista folded and RCA offered ongoing contracts with their connected label for artists they didn't want to lose. It was just sort of a merger. In regards to her Epic contract, I recall that beinga 2 album deal as well but we only got one. I think some people speculated a greatests hits might happen after she got sick to use up her contract. If it was a 2 album/5 year deal it might explain some of the delay between albums if she just wanted to wai out her contract. Clearly the AL album was her weakest and she was made to write a lot with hitmakers. I also think she was unhappy after the peak of her Lyme when she was made to do an interview talking about it in early 2015. She's since said she wasn't ready and it was too soon for that. Wouldn't her contract with Epic have required her to do 2 "studio" albums though? I don't think releasing a GH would have gotten her out of the contract. Once she was sick with Lyme, they probably realized she wouldn't be able to put out another album and once 5 years had already passed, they probably let it slide that she didn't end up recording a second album. Or maybe she had really good lawyers that got her out of it. Sometimes it's not specified. In the past 5th albums were often greatest hits used to run out 5 album contracts. The label usually didn't mind. GH required less money going in for them and could still make a lot in sales. They aren't so much a thing now but that's how it used to work. The contract may have specified 2 original studio albums though
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Hellelujah
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Post by Hellelujah on Nov 8, 2020 21:02:35 GMT
Maybe she did the second album with Epic but they preferred not to release it 🤷🏻♂️
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orangesky
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Post by orangesky on Nov 8, 2020 22:36:49 GMT
Maybe she did the second album with Epic but they preferred not to release it 🤷🏻♂️ I never thought of this but it could be possible. It's at the label's discretion to not release an album. I don't think that happened though. She didn't mention anything and songs like HAW and Warrior were first created back when she was with Epic so they would own them if she had recorded them and it's pretty safe to assume she would have. Unless she bought them back. She may have started work on something and then it became apparent it was never going to work so they came to an agreement to terminate the contract
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 2:05:48 GMT
RCA and Arista appear to have been connected companies since the 80s, with RCA being almost a sort of parent company to Arista and having a controlling stake in them. According to the back of my UMS cd the album was released by Arista and RCA together. I think it was clear by 2004 the label was going under so she didn't really leave Arista for RCA. It was more that Arista folded and RCA offered ongoing contracts with their connected label for artists they didn't want to lose. It was just sort of a merger. In regards to her Epic contract, I recall that beinga 2 album deal as well but we only got one. I think some people speculated a greatests hits might happen after she got sick to use up her contract. If it was a 2 album/5 year deal it might explain some of the delay between albums if she just wanted to wai out her contract. Clearly the AL album was her weakest and she was made to write a lot with hitmakers. I also think she was unhappy after the peak of her Lyme when she was made to do an interview talking about it in early 2015. She's since said she wasn't ready and it was too soon for that. All of this is covered in L A Reid’s book which I read but apparently forget this part.
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stickliketoffee
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Post by stickliketoffee on Feb 10, 2021 15:42:18 GMT
idk if this is unpopular or not (i'm pretty sure it's unpopular) but Goodbye Lullabye is one of her best album after Under My Skin.
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Jinkxx
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Post by Jinkxx on Feb 11, 2021 9:51:40 GMT
^Well I really love GL. I still listen to it quite often!
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katy
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Post by katy on Feb 11, 2021 19:23:35 GMT
DTM made the perfect first single for UMS, better than MHE would’ve been.
Not success wise, but bridging between the two albums. Moody teenager to young woman discussing sex but with a great message for the young girls who idolised her. My mum mentioned to me years back that I used to play DTM in the car in my early teens and she was really happy someone I was such a big fan of was pushing that message. Made her more appealing to parents who probably previously thought she was a brat.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Feb 11, 2021 19:43:24 GMT
Yeah I do think MHE is the stronger single material but DTM was a good bridge between LG and UMS. It introduced the heavier sound but it’s one of the poppier songs on the record.
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