BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 22, 2015 19:46:09 GMT
Avril's always experienced that with labels, ever since LG. But she was able to make hit songs like Complicated, Sk8er Boi, MHE, and GF that were hits and catchy songs but not throwaway cheap pop tunes. With the last 2 albums it's changed. I don't know if this is just how the label wants it, or when she is asked to write a hit now she just doesn't even try anymore and goes the cliche pop route a la WTH, HTNGU, RNR. She'll always be required to have radio friendly hits, that's true, but she's had hit songs in the past that were still Avril and unique for their time. I think what most of us are referring to is the rest if the album, aside from the singles. With AL it seemed she really didn't know what direction to go in which resulted in a confusing and low quality album. She didn't seem excited or passionate about most of it, aside from a few songs. We want her to get that passion and fire back, the way she felt with all her other albums. We want it to be something she feels proud of.
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katrina
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Post by katrina on Mar 22, 2015 21:03:55 GMT
The lack of passion most differently comes from the label telling her what to do. I also think it comes from her being a home body now and getting older and wanting to start a family. I remember an interview she did in 2003 after the Juno's Awards when she talked about wanting to start a family at a young age. She was talking about having a couple of kids in 2 to 3 years. I believe these are all factors.
One thing I noticed with the people around me when it comes to Avril. They all want to like or love her but something always falls short. My sister pretty much only knows her for the first two albums. But a year and half ago she listen to all of her albums and she didn't realize all the songs that were not single so she got back into her for a while. She most certainly is not being market right.
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Mar 22, 2015 21:28:20 GMT
Avril's always experienced that with labels, ever since LG. But she was able to make hit songs like Complicated, Sk8er Boi, MHE, and GF that were hits and catchy songs but not throwaway cheap pop tunes. With the last 2 albums it's changed. I don't know if this is just how the label wants it, or when she is asked to write a hit now she just doesn't even try anymore and goes the cliche pop route a la WTH, HTNGU, RNR. She'll always be required to have radio friendly hits, that's true, but she's had hit songs in the past that were still Avril and unique for their time. I think what most of us are referring to is the rest if the album, aside from the singles. With AL it seemed she really didn't know what direction to go in which resulted in a confusing and low quality album. She didn't seem excited or passionate about most of it, aside from a few songs. We want her to get that passion and fire back, the way she felt with all her other albums. We want it to be something she feels proud of. This.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Mar 22, 2015 21:46:02 GMT
I think that sometimes this whole "Avril gets forced to write and release 'hit' songs" idea gets blown out of proportion. Yes, Avril is most likely pressured by her labels to do this, but it's not like she is being drug by a chain! Her labels know, and Avril herself knows, that certain types of songs do well on pop/ac radio. It's these types of songs that help drive sales. Although her label may be pressuring these types of songs to draw in money, Avril willingly makes these songs.
She isn't depressed about it; just because a song might not necessarily withhold immense personal feelings, doesn't mean that writing them seems like a 'job' while writing deep, meaningful songs feels like 'a fun time'. Writing fun songs can be really fun; more fun than pouring out your heart and soul and bringing up old feelings.
Also, I think that sometimes it is forgotten that Avril is not just writing songs about her life or her experiences, but at the same time she is writing types of songs that she wants to hear. I'm sure Avril likes to rock out (I mean, she's kind of known for it), so she's going to write songs that she can rock out to. Although a great song, Give You What You Like is not a song that you rock out to. Different types of songs serve different purposes. Sometimes you need to listen to a ballad while other times you need to listen to a song that you can dance to.
Avril is considered by most, a pop genre artist. Fun, upbeat, catchy, radio-friendly songs are at the heart of pop genre music. That's why most songs that play on pop/ac radio have strong pop elements despite what genre the artists may be. My point, in short, is basically that Avril is not a victim. She can do whatever she wants to. If she wasn't fine with the circumstances of making 'hit' songs, then she wouldn't. I highly doubt that EPIC is making Avril do stuff that she doesn't want to do. If that was the case, then she would just leave. If she signed with Chad's label, she could essentially do everything exactly her way. My point is also that I do realize that her label does make some of the decisions. Signing contracts gives them that power, but Avril knows what she signed up for. *I wasn't trying to open a can of worms or start a big brawling discussion; I was just putting my pov out there i62.tinypic.com/15eafyw.jpg
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 22, 2015 23:14:04 GMT
The difference though is that it shows in her performances and interviews how she truly feels about those songs. She really doesn't appear to be into WTH, or at least wasnt at the time, nor RNR. I think she enjoys those songs but hates it when she is trying to make a serious album because they conflict with that sound.
And it's not as easy as you're making it sound to just leave if she doesn't like what's going on.. If it were that easy she'd have left RCA in 2009 and left Epic as soon as they sent her back to the studio. That is why they sign contracts and she is expected to fulfill a certain number of albums for them, among other things, and it is not easy to get out of. Kelly Clarkson recently said in an interview how embarrassed she was by the Justin to Kelly movie she was forced to be in. She said she tried to get out of it but was contractually obligated to film it. Similarly. Avril is contractually bound to do certain things that at the very least she would have a hard time getting out of.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Mar 22, 2015 23:52:47 GMT
True, but when you sign a contract, you read it and understand it beforehand. If not, then you can only blame yourself for getting into bad situations. If something comes up that is contractual, but is also something you don't like, well then you would only have put yourself in that situation. You couldn't blame the other party. And you're right about her performances, sometimes she doesn't show much enthusiasm. But just like leaving her label when things go awry isn't black and white, neither is the reason for her unenthusiastic performances. Looking bored on stage wouldn't necessarily translate to her not enjoying the music that she is making. Although, it could in fact be the reason part of the time. I think that a lot of that pertaining to the AL tour was probably due to the onset of her illness; If she had felt better both physically and mentally, I think that she would have gave it more passion. And also, negative things can sometimes overshadow positive things; meaning that a few people saying that Avril is unenthusiastic can evolve into many people believing that she is unenthusiastic and bored during her performances. (There's probably a politically correct psychology term for this phenomenon, but I can't think of it). P.S. - This is one of the reasons why I have missed Bandaids! I missed having these types of discussions in which anyone can express what they think, without turning it into drama of course. cdn.staticneo.com/neoassets/smileys/smile.gif
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Post by Jack on Mar 23, 2015 0:19:55 GMT
The problem is that the songs that showed, at least, a little bit of growth and maturity were rejected by her label and are pretty much unknown for general public. Heck, even some of her fans don't really like those songs that much. Indeed, she needs to build some momentum, but releasing songs like HTNGU, RnR or HK don't help. You will have a more serious, mature side with LMG or GYWYL, but it won't be enough. However, there's another problem: critics seem to like the "upbeat" Avril more than the "serious" one. UMS and, especially, GL weren't really appreciated by critics; while LG and AL, more poppy/commercial and, especially, TBDT had better reviews. In the AllMUsic review for TBDT, the reviewer said the "serious" Avril didn't look genuine and he was glad that the "upbeat" Avril was back It would seem like fans and critics think oppositely, and Avril might be confused about that; and also, her label(s) wanting her to release "hits" and making her go back to studio for that purpose. With all those "comings and goings", people get confused about what to expect from her, at least I do No wonder Avril doesn't seem even know what to do anymore, sometimes It's fair that labels want some catchy stuff for radios, but sometimes they pressurize artist too much to release a certain type of song/style just because that's what's "in" or what they think that might be successful for that artist in particular. But sometimes, it's counterproductive and the artist is unsatisfied and those songs aren't as successful as they wanted. I'm not saying Avril is completely innocent, but since it seems pretty clear that her label(s) made her go back to studio a few times to change her vision for the album(s), it's not strange that she felt discouraged and it affected her on stage. Of course, it doesn't justify the underwhelming tour/performances last years (especially AL era), but it likely has something to do with that. For her first three albums, she looked so happy and passionate with what she was doing. Yes, she went back to studio a few times (especially during LG and TBDT making process), but she didn't seem that uncomfortable as it seemed when happened with GL and AL. Surely, she had her ups and downs during those first years, but at least she looked passionate on stage and her shows more exciting. Last albums, she's been recycling the same set lists over and over again (mainly singles) and "old tricks" like the He Wasn't "up and down" thing or the song 2 cover. She even tried to bring the dancers back when RnR was released, fortunately she discarded that idea soon. P.S.- I also missed Bandaids and these "screeds"
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katrina
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Post by katrina on Mar 23, 2015 0:48:28 GMT
Yeah, I don't think you understand the music industry. Its a Dog Eat Dog World. As much as Avril was happy about working with LA Reid again. LA is still a business man and being one half owners of EPIC he would have been the one that made Avril go back into the studio. I believe Avril trusted to much in him. If Avril wouldn't have gone back into the studio we wouldn't have heard the album. They have many artist to look after so if one doesn't want to do what they want they will move on to the next. There have been many artist that have made albums that nobody will heard. Even bigger name artist. Some bands broke up because of this type of stuff. So in others words you sign a deal with the devil hope they will help and take care of a big part of the business side of it.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Mar 23, 2015 1:20:42 GMT
^ That can happen, but it can also happen the other way around. Artists can crack the whip too. Labels will make sure their big-name artists are happy in order to not lose them to competing labels. A label doesn't want to lose an artist who draws in a lot of money.
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funnymaster
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Post by funnymaster on Mar 23, 2015 5:15:22 GMT
After reading all these posts about Av's career I feel disoriented. She had it right when she said her life was complicated. Who's gonna straighten out all this mess? Somebody give Avril a great big hug, give her as much time as she wants in the studio, and let her do whatever she wants when she wants. Eh, man will it ever happen? Probably not. Maybe she just needs to find a way. It's a complicated mess all right. I realize I'm probably not adding anything of any value here but oh wells. She can do it though. I seriously do have faith in her.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 23, 2015 11:51:12 GMT
I suspect she probably has at least 1 more album to do with them (hopefully not more than that) and then it will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe move to Chad's label? It'd be a dream if she moved to Big Machine but then she'd probably get ignored for Swift and all the other country acts. It's like she can't win.
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katy
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Post by katy on Mar 23, 2015 13:03:46 GMT
Whilst I believe she wasn't keen on WTH, HTNGU, RNR etc I do question why she insists on playing them during every show and completely ignoring her serious songs she apparently wanted to make? At this point in her career 99% of people at her shows are long term fans, they don't want to hear crap like HTNGU and have her completely ignore FF, HH etc
It's not even like WTH, HTNGU or RNR did well either. Everyone's sick of those types of songs from a 30 year old. She'd have done much better to release a more mature pop song, 17, followed up by GYWYL, Hello Heartache etc. the insistence of her releasing "never growing up sticking my middle finger up I'm so rock and roll" crap has done far too much damage to her career.
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sam
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Post by sam on Mar 23, 2015 13:58:19 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks songs like FF, HH and 17 would of made great singles? IMO if they were singles AL could of been a lot more successful, they're a lot more radio friendly in my opinion and great songs, missed opportunity really- would of made an awesome comeback; I wonder if Epic forced her to choose the 3 singles as HTNGU, RNR and LMG.. probably? It wouldn't surprise me, but then again Avril chose HK as a single so I'm not so sure.
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Jinkxx
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Post by Jinkxx on Mar 23, 2015 14:19:01 GMT
I think we have a gap between 'Avril Lavigne' and #6 for at least 3 years...
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jenda358
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Post by jenda358 on Mar 23, 2015 14:58:45 GMT
Whilst I believe she wasn't keen on WTH, HTNGU, RNR etc I do question why she insists on playing them during every show and completely ignoring her serious songs she apparently wanted to make? At this point in her career 99% of people at her shows are long term fans, they don't want to hear crap like HTNGU and have her completely ignore FF, HH etc It's not even like WTH, HTNGU or RNR did well either. Everyone's sick of those types of songs from a 30 year old. She'd have done much better to release a more mature pop song, 17, followed up by GYWYL, Hello Heartache etc. the insistence of her releasing "never growing up sticking my middle finger up I'm so rock and roll" crap has done far too much damage to her career. Avril said in many interviews that she wanted to have setlists full of singles because singles are the songs that get the crowd most excited. I'm sure she's been saying this since TBDT era at least. If only she got rid of this attitude.
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