afonso16
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Post by afonso16 on May 30, 2024 16:26:25 GMT
Also I don't want to sound insensitive but she literally gives too much room to the opening acts. During the Love Sux tour dates I attended, I noticed 2 opening acts are too much in my opinion, and as if it wasn't enough, she even called them back on stage again to do the Blink 182 cover and she even went backstage and left them playing on stage. Now she's basically doing the same thing with the All Time Low, and while I personally found both Phem and Girlfriends sets nice last year, I absolutely don't care and I didn't pay so much money for a ticket to see them, not only before but also during Avril's own show, it's too much to be honest and I think no other superstar gives so much room to opening acts This type of criticism is definitely NOT insensitive, and I think it's always welcomed to present our perspectives about how she can put on a better concert for fans. Pointing out things to change in terms of the organization of the show, setlist, stage, instrumentations, vocals, tech stuff, etc., is totally understandable. It's not like saying random and subjective things like "lack of energy," "laziness," or talking about her moves, body, facial expressions, the way she 'dances', and doubting the smallest possibility of her health status interference on her performance etc... because all of this is subjective, stupid, and unfair. Artists like Ed Sheeran and Shawn Mendes put on their shows with minimal effort and everybody praises them. I don't want to play a social justice warrior, but being a female makes some Avril fans excessively critical and unfair in their expectations compared to some of her peers. You are not doing this! And I agree with you. I think she could've play more and give less space to the openers. But I also think that was strategically chosen. Pop rock/punk/rock artists in general have more openers. MGK also had 2 openers. Fall Out Boy also had two or even 3 openers for each concert. Not the lame misoginy excuse again.... I don't remember anyone here praising male artists like Ed Sheeran or Shawn Mendes to my recollection... ever. So I don't know why they're even being brought up. But even then, those artists are known for their accoustic guitar-driven material, that is not how Avril presents herself. Avril claims she is a "professional rocker" and goes on and on about how much she loves performing fun fast-paced songs live... yet there is a huge disconnect between the energy in those songs and what Avril presents on stage which makes her performance seem at times underwhelming. I don't understand the comparison to Avril's peers either... you mean Christina Aguilera and Pink who are both great vocalists and performers or Britney Spears who has been basically enslaved for years? Either way, she is doing fine in my book as long as she keeps doing these little surprises she's been doing for the past few shows, they make it exciting for everyone. But we really need to stop with this nonsencial accusations towards her fans: "they're not real fans"; "they're just misogynistic"; "they secretly just hate her". Please...
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pllforlife
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Post by pllforlife on May 30, 2024 16:34:20 GMT
This type of criticism is definitely NOT insensitive, and I think it's always welcomed to present our perspectives about how she can put on a better concert for fans. Pointing out things to change in terms of the organization of the show, setlist, stage, instrumentations, vocals, tech stuff, etc., is totally understandable. It's not like saying random and subjective things like "lack of energy," "laziness," or talking about her moves, body, facial expressions, the way she 'dances', and doubting the smallest possibility of her health status interference on her performance etc... because all of this is subjective, stupid, and unfair. Artists like Ed Sheeran and Shawn Mendes put on their shows with minimal effort and everybody praises them. I don't want to play a social justice warrior, but being a female makes some Avril fans excessively critical and unfair in their expectations compared to some of her peers. You are not doing this! And I agree with you. I think she could've play more and give less space to the openers. But I also think that was strategically chosen. Pop rock/punk/rock artists in general have more openers. MGK also had 2 openers. Fall Out Boy also had two or even 3 openers for each concert. Not the lame misoginy excuse again.... I don't remember anyone here praising male artists like Ed Sheeran or Shawn Mendes to my recollection... ever. So I don't know why they're even being brought up. But even then, those artists are known for their accoustic guitar-driven material, that is not how Avril presents herself. Avril claims she is a "professional rocker" and goes on and on about how much she loves performing fun fast-paced songs live... yet there is a huge disconnect between the energy in those songs and what Avril presents on stage which makes her performance seem at times underwhelming. I don't understand the comparison to Avril's peers either... you mean Christina Aguilera and Pink who are both great vocalists and performers or Britney Spears who has been basically enslaved for years? Either way, she is doing fine in my book as long as she keeps doing these little surprises she's been doing for the past few shows, they make it exciting for everyone. But we really need to stop with this nonsencial accusations towards her fans: "they're not real fans"; "they're just misogynistic"; "they secretly just hate her". Please... You have no idea what you’re even talking about. Ed Sheeran does it all on his own and loops all of his music on stage, playing straight through every song and is on stage way longer than Avril. His show is incredible, he brings out a band for maybe one song and then a violinist for another. Don’t comment on Ed when you have clearly no idea the work and passion he puts into it. Avril can barely even be bothered with instruments anymore
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landonm170
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Post by landonm170 on May 30, 2024 16:35:30 GMT
I honestly think there is some reason why she is sticking to a 75-90 min set and is not willing to go over, whether it’s due to her stamina or a venue restriction that she’s done by a certain time or whatever. And her compromise is to “add” songs but only short versions that don’t really make the show much longer but it allows fans to hear more songs. That’s the only explanation I can think of why she’s only adding bits and pieces of songs and not playing them in full. I’m ok with shortened versions (like we don’t need that second verse of Smile honestly) but I agree only the chorus of a song is too short. And yeah fan pages need to stop presenting it as though she’s doing an 18 song setlist, I remember they’d do the same when the HK video would get played while she was offstage and they’d count it as a song in the setlist even though she wasn’t even onstage lol According to setlist.fm, her show is ending around 10:30pm, so she has the time to add more full length songs, as many venues have their curfew set to 11pm. Also with the HK interlude, setlist.fm kept being like, 'you can't make it on tape because her band is playing live' but she ain't singing the song like stop counting it!
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on May 30, 2024 16:41:48 GMT
Yeah I would agree the complaints about Avril's stage presence have nothing to do with her being a female, but rather she has always presented herself as a pop/rock artist with high energy songs/shows. The artists you're comparing her to are not that kind of artist. A more appropriate comparison is Paramore, Olivia Rodrigo, Miley Cyrus... female rockers. And they are all more energetic than Avril and get huge praise for their performances. We all get it if Avril doesn't have the physical capability to do high energy shows anymore but then she can adapt her shows to be more acoustic, as we have said many times already.
As far as the opening acts thing, I personally hate it as well. I am just anxious for the main act to go on and I hate sitting through other acts I don't care about. It'd be one thing if I liked their music as well, but I'm usually not a fan of whoever is opening or completely unfamiliar with their music. The first time I saw her was the AL Tour and there was no opener, which I loved because when the show started it was just her, no waiting for her set. On the HAW Tour Jagwar Twin opened and they were fine but I just wanted Avril to come out. They played for maybe a half hour or so then it took about another half hour or so to set up Avril's stage. This time is Girlfriends, whose music I'm completely unfamiliar with, and Simple Plan, which I'm not a fan of but I don't mind watching them. I just hope they are not both playing for longer than 30 minutes each max.
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 30, 2024 16:43:07 GMT
This type of criticism is definitely NOT insensitive, and I think it's always welcomed to present our perspectives about how she can put on a better concert for fans. Pointing out things to change in terms of the organization of the show, setlist, stage, instrumentations, vocals, tech stuff, etc., is totally understandable. It's not like saying random and subjective things like "lack of energy," "laziness," or talking about her moves, body, facial expressions, the way she 'dances', and doubting the smallest possibility of her health status interference on her performance etc... because all of this is subjective, stupid, and unfair. Artists like Ed Sheeran and Shawn Mendes put on their shows with minimal effort and everybody praises them. I don't want to play a social justice warrior, but being a female makes some Avril fans excessively critical and unfair in their expectations compared to some of her peers. You are not doing this! And I agree with you. I think she could've play more and give less space to the openers. But I also think that was strategically chosen. Pop rock/punk/rock artists in general have more openers. MGK also had 2 openers. Fall Out Boy also had two or even 3 openers for each concert. Not the lame misoginy excuse again.... I don't understand the comparison to Avril's peers either... you mean Christina Aguilera and Pink who are both great vocalists and performers or Britney Spears who has been basically enslaved for years? Misogyny is not just a lame excuse, it's a reality in our society. Not everyone is fully conscious of its extent but it's prevalent accept it or not. I appreciate your reference to Christina Aguilera, cause her on-going tour has a setlist that comprises only 15 songs. Sometimes, 14. If you've regarded her as a great vocalist for years, it might be time to reassess your standards. Regarding Britney, even during her peak, she wasn't known for her vocal or instrumental prowess. She was a talented dancer for sometime, specially during the first half of her career, and even before the conservatorship, her performances seem limited to arm movements after health problems (yes, artists have health problems too. Apparently just Avril doesn't have to deal with this according to some fans) lol... Pink, on the other hand, deserves recognition for her excellence. Agreed! Claps! As for Avril, Pink songs rely on nostalgia, the same style of pop-rock without significant innovation in lyrics or whatever else. Maybe instead of trying to change Avril, maybe fans could explore other artists like Pink. Avril has never been known for her stage presence over her 22-year career, NEVER! Lol... so Pink could be a nice pick for some fans. She deserves it too.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on May 30, 2024 16:44:11 GMT
I honestly think there is some reason why she is sticking to a 75-90 min set and is not willing to go over, whether it’s due to her stamina or a venue restriction that she’s done by a certain time or whatever. And her compromise is to “add” songs but only short versions that don’t really make the show much longer but it allows fans to hear more songs. That’s the only explanation I can think of why she’s only adding bits and pieces of songs and not playing them in full. I’m ok with shortened versions (like we don’t need that second verse of Smile honestly) but I agree only the chorus of a song is too short. And yeah fan pages need to stop presenting it as though she’s doing an 18 song setlist, I remember they’d do the same when the HK video would get played while she was offstage and they’d count it as a song in the setlist even though she wasn’t even onstage lol According to setlist.fm, her show is ending around 10:30pm, so she has the time to add more full length songs, as many venues have their curfew set to 11pm. Also with the HK interlude, setlist.fm kept being like, 'you can't make it on tape because her band is playing live' but she ain't singing the song like stop counting it! As much as I would like a longer show, I'm glad to hear her show ends around 10:30 because I have to work the next day and it'll probably take a long time to get out of the venue, etc. lol Honestly not mad about an earlier end time even if it means the show is shorter than I'd like.
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afonso16
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Post by afonso16 on May 30, 2024 16:59:25 GMT
Not the lame misoginy excuse again.... I don't understand the comparison to Avril's peers either... you mean Christina Aguilera and Pink who are both great vocalists and performers or Britney Spears who has been basically enslaved for years? Misogyny is not just a lame excuse, it's a reality in our society. Not everyone is fully conscious of its extent but it's prevalent accept it or not. I appreciate your reference to Christina Aguilera, cause her on-going tour has a setlist that comprises only 15 songs. Sometimes, 14. If you've regarded her as a great vocalist for years, it might be time to reassess your standards. Regarding Britney, even during her peak, she wasn't known for her vocal or instrumental prowess. She was a talented dancer for sometime, specially during the first half of her career, and even before the conservatorship, her performances seem limited to arm movements after health problems (yes, artists have health problems too. Apparently just Avril doesn't have to deal with this according to some fans) lol... Pink, on the other hand, deserves recognition for her excellence. Agreed! Claps! As for Avril, Pink songs rely on nostalgia, the same style of pop-rock without significant innovation in lyrics or whatever else. Maybe instead of trying to change Avril, maybe fans could explore other artists like Pink. Avril has never been known for her stage presence over her 22-year career, NEVER! Lol... so Pink could be a nice pick for some fans. She deserves it too. Everyone knows misoginy is a prevalent reality, Avril's performance being scrutinized for her being a woman is not and, in fact, comes across as a cheap way to attack those who criticize her. As to Christina/Britney/Pink: 1) I do think Christina still sounds good (and I literally never liked her all that much or her music); 2) Britney's fans don't care that she's not a good singer and they never did, because that's never what they valued most about Britney. Not all that comparable to Avril.; 3) Definitely don't see Pink as a nostalgia artist, and I don't see why anyone would think that of her either when her image nowadays is so far removed from what it was back in the day.
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 30, 2024 17:12:15 GMT
A more appropriate comparison is Paramore, Olivia Rodrigo, Miley Cyrus... female rockers. And they are all more energetic than Avril and get huge praise for their performances. We all get it if Avril doesn't have the physical capability to do high energy shows anymore but then she can adapt her shows to be more acoustic, as we have said many times already. That's precisely the kind of criticism that seems fair to make... requesting Avril to adapt her show. Instead of talking about her moves or her way of being that's prevalent even when she's not in the stage. I think that this is just how she is. Btw I don't know exactly if people REALLY want that. I want it, lol... but at one point, there were requests for shortened versions of songs. When she implemented them, complaints arose because they weren't full versions... and we all know shortened versions / only chorus renditions are, yes, common among other artists. I think there a a continual cycle where requests are made, adjustments by her are attempted (not properly), but new complains arise. Btw, I also feel people expect Avril to perform more like a pop-singer than a pop-rock singer. Specially cause she's more pop than Paramore, for example.
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minaring
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Post by minaring on May 30, 2024 17:14:41 GMT
do we know if the fans avril brought up were in pit or in rows? still debating if i want the sk8er boi package but i really want to try pit and get picked by avril LOL so this may be my deciding factor
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melissavandella
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Post by melissavandella on May 30, 2024 17:15:49 GMT
I can't wake to wake up tomorrow, make my breakfast and watch a 15 seconds clip of Avril performing "Alice".
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 30, 2024 17:16:29 GMT
Misogyny is not just a lame excuse, it's a reality in our society. Not everyone is fully conscious of its extent but it's prevalent accept it or not. I appreciate your reference to Christina Aguilera, cause her on-going tour has a setlist that comprises only 15 songs. Sometimes, 14. If you've regarded her as a great vocalist for years, it might be time to reassess your standards. Regarding Britney, even during her peak, she wasn't known for her vocal or instrumental prowess. She was a talented dancer for sometime, specially during the first half of her career, and even before the conservatorship, her performances seem limited to arm movements after health problems (yes, artists have health problems too. Apparently just Avril doesn't have to deal with this according to some fans) lol... Pink, on the other hand, deserves recognition for her excellence. Agreed! Claps! As for Avril, Pink songs rely on nostalgia, the same style of pop-rock without significant innovation in lyrics or whatever else. Maybe instead of trying to change Avril, maybe fans could explore other artists like Pink. Avril has never been known for her stage presence over her 22-year career, NEVER! Lol... so Pink could be a nice pick for some fans. She deserves it too. Everyone knows misoginy is a prevalent reality, Avril's performance being scrutinized for her being a woman is not and, in fact, comes across as a cheap way to attack those who criticize her. As to Christina/Britney/Pink: 1) I do think Christina still sounds good (and I literally never liked her all that much or her music); 2) Britney's fans don't care that she's not a good singer and they never did, because that's never what they valued most about Britney. Not all that comparable to Avril.; 3) Definitely don't see Pink as a nostalgia artist, and I don't see why anyone would think that of her either when her image nowadays is so far removed from what it was back in the day. P!nk has distanced herself because many pop-rock singers attempt to rebrand with an adult-contemporary sound, and her fans have supported it. Pink and Kelly are great examples. Their fans have given them a lot of support. When Avril released Head Above Water - to try this same move -, fans criticized the album and said they want the old Avril, as some usually do. Then she released Love Sux and the album was acclaimed... she's always trying to give fanservices and the crowd keeps chanting more lol...
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mondragon
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Post by mondragon on May 30, 2024 17:17:53 GMT
Pink is definitely not a nostalgia artist. She’s had big hits in recent years. Avril hasn’t had a major hit since WTH or if you’re counting HTNGU.
Fans complaining about Avril’s setlist is definitely not a gender/sexism thing. And we absolutely have a right to complain about things. We buy her music, we’ve supported her for 20+ years. I don’t think anyone here is being over the top or out of order.
Never been to an Ed Sheehan gig and I’m not a fan but I think it is quite clear that musically and artistically he is more talented than Avril. Dunno much about Shawn Mendes sets but to be honest I would not be arsed if Avril stood there with a guitar and performed 20 songs. Not bothered about aesthetics or what she’s wearing. TTSMU tour is a casing point. She sang the whole of Let Go, a cover and some bsides with no costume changes and low production.
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minaring
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Post by minaring on May 30, 2024 17:27:28 GMT
Pink is definitely not a nostalgia artist. She’s had big hits in recent years. Avril hasn’t had a major hit since WTH or if you’re counting HTNGU. Fans complaining about Avril’s setlist is definitely not a gender/sexism thing. And we absolutely have a right to complain about things. We buy her music, we’ve supported her for 20+ years. I don’t think anyone here is being over the top or out of order. Never been to an Ed Sheehan gig and I’m not a fan but I think it is quite clear that musically and artistically he is more talented than Avril. Dunno much about Shawn Mendes sets but to be honest I would not be arsed if Avril stood there with a guitar and performed 20 songs. Not bothered about aesthetics or what she’s wearing. TTSMU tour is a casing point. She sang the whole of Let Go, a cover and some bsides with no costume changes and low production. wait, what hit has pink had recently? last hit i can recall was more than 10 years ago. just give me a reason i think it was called. i'd say avril has had a hit after that but what do i know
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 30, 2024 17:28:06 GMT
As I've mentioned several times in this thread, complaints about the setlist, stage, etc., are totally understandable. I even endorsed them. But criticizing a woman for her body movements, facial expressions, twitches, etc., is another matter. But feel free to choose whatever you want to emphasize your point. I stand by what I said, just need to flip back a few pages.
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minaring
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Post by minaring on May 30, 2024 17:36:04 GMT
i don't go to a lot of western artists' concerts, can somebody tell me if fans still bring posters or is that a thing of the past?! i was thinking of bringing up a tiny little led poster with her name and picture just like they do at most kpop events. it'll be small so not enough to obstruct peoples view because i know how annoying that is. but i remember last time i tried bringing one was at a justin bieber concert back in 09 and i wasnt allowed to bring it in HAHA
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