Becky
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Post by Becky on Jun 8, 2016 19:23:29 GMT
oxfordstudent.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Avril-Lavigne.jpgUnpopular opinion: I’ve never really understood the Taylor Swift craze. People love her because her songs are catchy, she’s attractive, she has a nice voice, and (surprisingly in my opinion) because they relate to her lyrics. I get it, we never go out of style/are never getting back together ya-da ya-da but for me she’s just a bit …meh. The other day, I was thinking about how young some of her fan base is too – I mean, I can see teenagers relating to “I knew you were trouble when you walked in” and what not, but for girls as young as 8, what is it that draws them specifically to Taylor Swift as opposed to any other female artist Taylor’s age? This thought got me thinking about my childhood: Was there a female singer-songwriter that I adored as much as little girls love TayTay? And then it hit me: of course – Avril Lavigne. I’ve never been puritanical in believing children need squeaky clean positive role models in their music videos and movies – my kids will be welcome to adore Rihanna and Queen Bey as they please, but if you need a positive female role model for teenage girls, Avril is your woman. At just 15, she appeared on stage with Shania Twain and by the time she turned 17 the pop punk princess released her debut album “Let Go” which sold over 20 million copies worldwide. Her look was everything and definitely the reason why I wore nothing but Converses, studded bracelets and all the checked ties money could buy you at Claire’s for far too long. Avril, unlike every single star I see now, looked like a teenager that dressed herself (awkwardly) and that did her own makeup (raccoon eyeliner/eyeshadow). Unlike pop stars like Selena Gomez who can’t wait to get to age 20 so they can start selling a “risqué” image that’s creepily constructed for them, Avril’s music employs no shock factors – her look doesn’t read as artificial. In the words of the woman herself: “I don’t want to sell sex. I’ve got so much more to say.” With Avril, you really felt that she was a teenager singing about teen problems. Some of our favourite throwbacks like “Complicated” and “Sk8r Boi” (old text messaging with bad spelling nostalgia ahhh) are just perfect in addressing issues most of us discover at high school. We all had that friend who acted completely different around different people in order to impress – sometimes at the expense of your friendship with them – thankfully Avril was there to express your angst on this subject for you with “Complicated”. And as for “Sk8r Boi”, it goes completely against “#squad” and “#squadgoals” as propagated by Swift & co. Deciding who is cool enough to make a celebrity cameo in your music video dissing Katy Perry is a long jump from the mentality of “Sk8r Boi” which stands for not underestimating people or classifying them into “cool” and “uncool”: underestimated Sk8r Boi becomes a rock star, “too cool for school” girl gets left behind. I’m sure no one could ever liken Avril to Regina George via tweet as Perry did with Swift. “I’m With You” too, is that moment when you’re at a house party, and you don’t know anyone or feel a bit alone – you might have drunk too much, you might just feel socially awkward and left out, but all you want is some company: “Isn’t anyone trying to find me?/Won’t somebody come take me home?”. Also, she is the QUEEN of break up songs – “He Wasn’t” and “My Happy Ending” perfectly express the come down after our unrealistic expectations of first love are let down: “Held up so high on such a breakable thread”. It’s not about girls who can’t resist a bad boy, it’s about breaking off a relationship once you realise the person you were with isn’t what you thought they were. “You were everything I thought I knew”, but now I realise you’re not. “He wasn’t what I wanted, what I thought, no”. And given the naivety and insecurities of many teenagers are often taken advantage of, the fact that every one of her songs oozes with an assertion of self-respect becomes even more important: “He never made me feel like I was special – yes I was special”. Even in “Hot”, which is not one of her best songs, she describes how a guy “makes [her] so hot” not only because he turns her on, but also because he treats her well, which makes her feel good, hot, etc.: “you’re so good to me baby” is repeated throughout the song and the song ends on “You’re so good”. Avril wants you respect yourself and be with guys that do the same. And if they don’t she can help you tell them where to go. But on a serious note, I have a lot of respect for Avril as a singer-songwriter. She tackles plenty of darker themes in her music too: ‘Unwanted’ and ‘Losing My Grip’ are all about being rejected, breaking down and being cut off from others emotionally, ‘Nobody’s Home’ taken literally is about teenage homelessness, taken metaphorically is about a girl with a horrific family life, and in the music video to ‘When You’re Gone’ we see how this song could be applied to the mourning of a loved one. But most importantly, Avril had the balls to tackle an issue that most female artists, regardless of age, would hesitate to address: the issue of consent. This subject affects all people of all ages, and is particularly important for teenage girls growing up in an increasingly graphically sexual society to understand. Discovering your sexuality is exciting, but there’s always a pressure on, an expectation even, of girls to realise it fully too quickly. In “Don’t Tell Me” we hear a vulnerable, but frustrated voice building in intensity as she insists on telling an even more insistent guy “No”: “Don’t think that your charm and the fact that your arm is now around my neck/ Will get you in my pants…/ I’m gonna ask you to stop/ Thought I liked you a lot, but I’m really upset/ Get out of my head, Get off of my bed – yeah that’s what I said/ …Did you think that I was gonna give it up to you, this time? Did you think that it was somethin’ I was gonna do and cry? Don’t try to tell me what to do.” Dynamic, strong, determined. She communicates the upset and the anger of being in this situation ridiculously well through her heartfelt vocals and simple, to the point lyrics. And again, if she fails to get this across to him, “[she’s] better off alone anyway” as the song concludes. There are so many songs out the about having loads of sex – and that’s great. But not everyone wants to have sex all the time, or at all for reasons of faith/age/consent etc. And this should be expressed through and represented by music. All these are reasons why I can forgive her for releasing the abomination that is “Hello Kitty”. oxfordstudent.com/2016/06/07/homage-avril-lavigne/
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Red
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Post by Red on Jun 8, 2016 20:35:29 GMT
This is one of the best articles I've ever read about avril. 100% agree
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TheRaven
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Post by TheRaven on Jun 9, 2016 7:53:09 GMT
I won't get started on the first paragraph and TSwift. But overall I believe the article is well written and does make good points. Thanks for sharing it!
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jun 9, 2016 12:06:40 GMT
What they wrote about Avril is good but they clearly don't know a lot of Taylor music. Taylor is actually a far better songwriter than Avril is to be perfectly honest. Taylor writes about other things besides guys, like Ronan which is about a little boy who died of cancer. I dare anyone who doesn't "get" Taylor or like her to listen to that song and not break down crying.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 18:57:11 GMT
What they wrote about Avril is good but they clearly don't know a lot of Taylor music. Taylor is actually a far better songwriter than Avril is to be perfectly honest. It's not fair to fall down to such kind of arguments when talking about "song writing quality". Because, you, know, then everybody should sing about died boys. I already said there is no such thing well defined as "quality" of creativity and even being liked by many people or getting grammy is not considered a sign of quality, rather this is a measure of popularity. So, all in all, it's a question of your own tastes. If you love watering down listening to heartbreaking, soul-destroying songs, then you would count such songs a peak of creativity. On the other hand someone would not, and not because he/she is a callous misantrop, just because he\she doesn't enjoy watering down. it's not necessarily for the creative to be of that kind to be good. You like TS and you are defending her, but not fair way. Oppositely I always thought singers particularly should not exploit excessively such heartbreaking topics when writing their song, and only if they have a strong wish (reason) to do this, they should, not just for the reason of seeming "cool". I don't say TS wrote that song to seem cool, no. I just believe creativity should not be preaching/teaching/soul-destroying. It should not get any mission and should not speculate (profiteer) on strong emotions. And yet, such songs may be very good written but still be hard to listen. I even don't doubt, that mentioned by you song is "breaking down" song. But is it a measure of the song "quality"? Avril's "Slipped Away" is a very good song, but hard to listen to. Because of the topic. My grandfather died 2004. Avril's grandfather died and she wanted to write about this and she did it. That's how creativity works. Next time she maybe writes about something meaningless or imaginable at all, THIS would not turn those song in "less quality" songs, definitely. By the way, see, avril has songs not only about "guys". I wanted to say - not the topic of songs is the ultimate factor of the song being considered good or bad, I doubt there is any reasonable measure defining this. Except the obvious floppy cases where everything is wrong in the song. I don't believe in song-quality-meter. It's just a very subjective means to defend or strike. You love an artist or you don't. And you don't know why. It just happened, that's all. Too many factors were influencing this, most of them - inside your head and most of them are randomly combined. All these tryings to explain one's love to an artist by her/his "superiority" over someone else is false. So what you said means actually only this: by now you are more of TS fan than AL. And, in the end, like avril said, by the way, about comparison with TS, again, - comparison is judgement and judgement shows not who compared is but who you are. Something like that.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Jun 9, 2016 19:04:12 GMT
Whats going on... all of the sudden these positive nostalgic articles appear Interesting that GL and AL never happened to the general public and some of her former fans. They werent even mentioned...
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Becky
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Post by Becky on Jun 9, 2016 19:26:22 GMT
What they wrote about Avril is good but they clearly don't know a lot of Taylor music. Taylor is actually a far better songwriter than Avril is to be perfectly honest. It's not fair to fall down to such kind of arguments when talking about "song writing quality". Because, you, know, then everybody should sing about died boys. I already said there is no such thing well defined as "quality" of creativity and even being liked by many people or getting grammy is not considered a sign of quality, rather this is a measure of popularity. So, all in all, it's a question of your own tastes. If you love watering down listening to heartbreaking, soul-destroying songs, then you would count such songs a peak of creativity. On the other hand someone would not, and not because he/she is a callous misantrop, just because he\she doesn't enjoy watering down. it's not necessarily for the creative to be of that kind to be good. You like TS and you are defending her, but not fair way. Oppositely I always thought singers particularly should not exploit excessively such heartbreaking topics when writing their song, and only if they have a strong wish (reason) to do this, they should, not just for the reason of seeming "cool". I don't say TS wrote that song to seem cool, no. I just believe creativity should not be preaching/teaching/soul-destroying. It should not get any mission and should not speculate (profiteer) on strong emotions. And yet, such songs may be very good written but still be hard to listen. I even don't doubt, that mentioned by you song is "breaking down" song. But is it a measure of the song "quality"? Avril's "Slipped Away" is a very good song, but hard to listen to. Because of the topic. My grandfather died 2004. Avril's grandfather died and she wanted to write about this and she did it. That's how creativity works. Next time she maybe writes about something meaningless or imaginable at all, THIS would not turn those song in "less quality" songs, definitely. By the way, see, avril has songs not only about "guys". I wanted to say - not the topic of songs is the ultimate factor of the song being considered good or bad, I doubt there is any reasonable measure defining this. Except the obvious floppy cases where everything is wrong in the song. I don't believe in song-quality-meter. It's just a very subjective means to defend or strike. You love an artist or you don't. And you don't know why. It just happened, that's all. Too many factors were influencing this, most of them - inside your head and most of them are randomly combined. All these tryings to explain one's love to an artist by her/his "superiority" over someone else is false. So what you said means actually only this: by now you are more of TS fan than AL. And, in the end, like avril said, by the way, about comparison with TS, again, - comparison is judgement and judgement shows not who compared is but who you are. Something like that. I liked as soon as I saw the Joey gif haha It's all opinion, tbh I reckon Taylor probably is a better songwriter, her songs seem to be structured better and tell a story more. However I just prefer Avril's music, and like her style, even if her songs seem a bit mismatched or messy. But then I don't know a lot about music.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 19:36:02 GMT
I liked as soon as I saw the Joey gif haha That gif was the only meaningful thing in that mess.)
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Becky
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Post by Becky on Jun 9, 2016 20:05:40 GMT
I liked as soon as I saw the Joey gif haha That gif was the only meaningful thing in that mess.) Nah it's your opinion Music is so subjective that people are never going to all agree, what makes a better songwriter will change from person to person.
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sam
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Post by sam on Jun 9, 2016 20:17:15 GMT
Whats going on... all of the sudden these positive nostalgic articles appear Interesting that GL and AL never happened to the general public and some of her former fans. They werent even mentioned...Better than negative ones People reminisce about her quite often. Bold: Honestly, I hate to say this but they are both her less known and liked albums. I think that's why they weren't mentioned.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 21:40:58 GMT
I'm enjoying this rise in positive Avril articles. Great article. Makes a lot of good points. I don't really relate to the lyrics in Avril's songs, but I can see how they can relate to a lot of people.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jun 9, 2016 21:45:13 GMT
What they wrote about Avril is good but they clearly don't know a lot of Taylor music. Taylor is actually a far better songwriter than Avril is to be perfectly honest. It's not fair to fall down to such kind of arguments when talking about "song writing quality". Because, you, know, then everybody should sing about died boys. I already said there is no such thing well defined as "quality" of creativity and even being liked by many people or getting grammy is not considered a sign of quality, rather this is a measure of popularity. So, all in all, it's a question of your own tastes. If you love watering down listening to heartbreaking, soul-destroying songs, then you would count such songs a peak of creativity. On the other hand someone would not, and not because he/she is a callous misantrop, just because he\she doesn't enjoy watering down. it's not necessarily for the creative to be of that kind to be good. You like TS and you are defending her, but not fair way. Oppositely I always thought singers particularly should not exploit excessively such heartbreaking topics when writing their song, and only if they have a strong wish (reason) to do this, they should, not just for the reason of seeming "cool". I don't say TS wrote that song to seem cool, no. I just believe creativity should not be preaching/teaching/soul-destroying. It should not get any mission and should not speculate (profiteer) on strong emotions. And yet, such songs may be very good written but still be hard to listen. I even don't doubt, that mentioned by you song is "breaking down" song. But is it a measure of the song "quality"? Avril's "Slipped Away" is a very good song, but hard to listen to. Because of the topic. My grandfather died 2004. Avril's grandfather died and she wanted to write about this and she did it. That's how creativity works. Next time she maybe writes about something meaningless or imaginable at all, THIS would not turn those song in "less quality" songs, definitely. By the way, see, avril has songs not only about "guys". I wanted to say - not the topic of songs is the ultimate factor of the song being considered good or bad, I doubt there is any reasonable measure defining this. Except the obvious floppy cases where everything is wrong in the song. I don't believe in song-quality-meter. It's just a very subjective means to defend or strike. You love an artist or you don't. And you don't know why. It just happened, that's all. Too many factors were influencing this, most of them - inside your head and most of them are randomly combined. All these tryings to explain one's love to an artist by her/his "superiority" over someone else is false. So what you said means actually only this: by now you are more of TS fan than AL. And, in the end, like avril said, by the way, about comparison with TS, again, - comparison is judgement and judgement shows not who compared is but who you are. Something like that. I wasn't comparing them as songwriters, I was speaking about the person who wrote this article bashing Taylor in the beginning by mentioning only a few of her hits that are about breakups and it's rather obvious they have never really listened to much of her music outside of her most well known hits. I wasn't saying that Taylor writes about other stuff and Avril only writes about guys, I feel the same way whenever someone bashes Avril and says she's "bratty" and it makes it obvious that they've never listened to much of her music, outside of the singles she is known for like Girlfriend and WTH. And when I said Taylor is a better writer than Avril, I meant that Taylor writes better lyrics. I mean compare: "You call me up just to break me like a promise/So casually cruel in the name of being honest" to "I'll get by/I'll survive/When the world's crashing down/When I fall and hit the ground/I will turn myself around" I mean. Come on. Avril's lyrics are really elementary and simple in comparison to how well Taylor writes. Some might prefer Avril's "simplistic" writing style to Taylor's but there's no question that Taylor can write way more thought provoking, advanced, and complex lyrics than Avril ever could. I'm not saying Avril can't write, I do enjoy her self written songs a lot and they are some of my favorites of hers, but no doubt in my mind that Taylor is a far superior writer IMO. And Avril is still my #1 favorite artist, it's ok to say one artist is better than her at something, especially if it's true (like Ariana Grande is a far better vocalist than Avril probably ever could be too). There's always going to be artists out there that are a better writer or singer than she is, it's not like she has to be the best at everything for her to be someone's favorite artist. She is my favorite artist for more reasons than just her music.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jun 9, 2016 21:52:18 GMT
This article seem to focus mainly on the first two albums, with just a few mentions about her 3rd and none about 4th and 5th. It shows she definitely needs an album that can capture the attention of the GP, because last albums haven't done it due to bad single choices and/or overall underwhelmingness (especially AL). Not neccesarily to have a "massive" success like her first albums, but something to make her remembered more than just being the Complicated or Girlfriend singer.
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Becky
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Post by Becky on Jun 9, 2016 21:53:51 GMT
It's not fair to fall down to such kind of arguments when talking about "song writing quality". Because, you, know, then everybody should sing about died boys. I already said there is no such thing well defined as "quality" of creativity and even being liked by many people or getting grammy is not considered a sign of quality, rather this is a measure of popularity. So, all in all, it's a question of your own tastes. If you love watering down listening to heartbreaking, soul-destroying songs, then you would count such songs a peak of creativity. On the other hand someone would not, and not because he/she is a callous misantrop, just because he\she doesn't enjoy watering down. it's not necessarily for the creative to be of that kind to be good. You like TS and you are defending her, but not fair way. Oppositely I always thought singers particularly should not exploit excessively such heartbreaking topics when writing their song, and only if they have a strong wish (reason) to do this, they should, not just for the reason of seeming "cool". I don't say TS wrote that song to seem cool, no. I just believe creativity should not be preaching/teaching/soul-destroying. It should not get any mission and should not speculate (profiteer) on strong emotions. And yet, such songs may be very good written but still be hard to listen. I even don't doubt, that mentioned by you song is "breaking down" song. But is it a measure of the song "quality"? Avril's "Slipped Away" is a very good song, but hard to listen to. Because of the topic. My grandfather died 2004. Avril's grandfather died and she wanted to write about this and she did it. That's how creativity works. Next time she maybe writes about something meaningless or imaginable at all, THIS would not turn those song in "less quality" songs, definitely. By the way, see, avril has songs not only about "guys". I wanted to say - not the topic of songs is the ultimate factor of the song being considered good or bad, I doubt there is any reasonable measure defining this. Except the obvious floppy cases where everything is wrong in the song. I don't believe in song-quality-meter. It's just a very subjective means to defend or strike. You love an artist or you don't. And you don't know why. It just happened, that's all. Too many factors were influencing this, most of them - inside your head and most of them are randomly combined. All these tryings to explain one's love to an artist by her/his "superiority" over someone else is false. So what you said means actually only this: by now you are more of TS fan than AL. And, in the end, like avril said, by the way, about comparison with TS, again, - comparison is judgement and judgement shows not who compared is but who you are. Something like that. I wasn't comparing them as songwriters, I was speaking about the person who wrote this article bashing Taylor in the beginning by mentioning only a few of her hits that are about breakups and it's rather obvious they have never really listened to much of her music outside of her most well known hits. I wasn't saying that Taylor writes about other stuff and Avril only writes about guys, I feel the same way whenever someone bashes Avril and says she's "bratty" and it makes it obvious that they've never listened to much of her music, outside of the singles she is known for like Girlfriend and WTH. And when I said Taylor is a better writer than Avril, I meant that Taylor writes better lyrics. I mean compare: "You call me up just to break me like a promise/So casually cruel in the name of being honest" to "I'll get by/I'll survive/When the world's crashing down/When I fall and hit the ground/I will turn myself around" I mean. Come on. Avril's lyrics are really elementary and simple in comparison to how well Taylor writes. Some might prefer Avril's "simplistic" writing style to Taylor's but there's no question that Taylor can write way more thought provoking, advanced, and complex lyrics than Avril ever could. I'm not saying Avril can't write, I do enjoy her self written songs a lot and they are some of my favorites of hers, but no doubt in my mind that Taylor is a far superior writer IMO. And Avril is still my #1 favorite artist, it's ok to say one artist is better than her at something, especially if it's true (like Ariana Grande is a far better vocalist than Avril probably ever could be too). There's always going to be artists out there that are a better writer or singer than she is, it's not like she has to be the best at everything for her to be someone's favorite artist. She is my favorite artist for more reasons than just her music. I didn't really think she was bashing Taylor, just saying that it's not really for her. I mean those lyrics she mentioned aren't amazing haha but yes I'd put Taylor's songwriting ability above Avril's. And also like you say, Avril's lyrics (in my opinion) are more about the simple emotion and relatability, as opposed to being poetic. However saying this, I don't think they're a good example for comparison. Also Avril's known for WTH? I thought it flopped.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jun 9, 2016 23:09:32 GMT
I wasn't comparing them as songwriters, I was speaking about the person who wrote this article bashing Taylor in the beginning by mentioning only a few of her hits that are about breakups and it's rather obvious they have never really listened to much of her music outside of her most well known hits. I wasn't saying that Taylor writes about other stuff and Avril only writes about guys, I feel the same way whenever someone bashes Avril and says she's "bratty" and it makes it obvious that they've never listened to much of her music, outside of the singles she is known for like Girlfriend and WTH. And when I said Taylor is a better writer than Avril, I meant that Taylor writes better lyrics. I mean compare: "You call me up just to break me like a promise/So casually cruel in the name of being honest" to "I'll get by/I'll survive/When the world's crashing down/When I fall and hit the ground/I will turn myself around" I mean. Come on. Avril's lyrics are really elementary and simple in comparison to how well Taylor writes. Some might prefer Avril's "simplistic" writing style to Taylor's but there's no question that Taylor can write way more thought provoking, advanced, and complex lyrics than Avril ever could. I'm not saying Avril can't write, I do enjoy her self written songs a lot and they are some of my favorites of hers, but no doubt in my mind that Taylor is a far superior writer IMO. And Avril is still my #1 favorite artist, it's ok to say one artist is better than her at something, especially if it's true (like Ariana Grande is a far better vocalist than Avril probably ever could be too). There's always going to be artists out there that are a better writer or singer than she is, it's not like she has to be the best at everything for her to be someone's favorite artist. She is my favorite artist for more reasons than just her music. I didn't really think she was bashing Taylor, just saying that it's not really for her. I mean those lyrics she mentioned aren't amazing haha but yes I'd put Taylor's songwriting ability above Avril's. And also like you say, Avril's lyrics (in my opinion) are more about the simple emotion and relatability, as opposed to being poetic. However saying this, I don't think they're a good example for comparison. Also Avril's known for WTH? I thought it flopped. Ok maybe "bashing" is a bit of an exaggeration, but the writer made it pretty obvious he/she didn't know much of Taylor's music outside of WANEGBT, IKYWT, etc. Just like a lot of people who make judgments about Avril's music when they only know Girlfriend, WTH, Sk8er Boi, etc. I wouldn't say WTH was a flop, it's not her most well known hit, for sure, but I was just using it as an example of the kind of "bratty" songs she is known for, and that is what a lot of people base their opinion of her on, even though she has lots of other songs that are different like Fly that they don't know about or she isn't as known for.
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