katy
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Post by katy on Oct 4, 2017 11:01:54 GMT
I completely agree with much stricter gun laws in the US, but interested to know how people think it would be implemented? Surely there's far too many out there so the problem runs way too deep for anything to be significantly changed now. How can you enforce it when so many people already own one and they're so easily accessible?
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ben545
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MOTM March '16 - Banned
“If you ever need anything please don’t hesitate to ask someone else first.” Kurt Cobain
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Post by ben545 on Oct 4, 2017 11:18:54 GMT
I'm sorry I called the American people stupid. 11600 gun related deaths so far this year is a lot of dead people. Seems kind of stupid to me. Is that better? I'm sorry, I don't know how else to express my opinion. Do Americans have some kind of death wish? How can they live like that? How can those figures be acceptable? It's really quite scary. As an American I can honestly say that many times over the past year I have thought there are too many stupid Americans in my country. I can't stand the embarrassment that is our government at the moment. And our gun laws are ridiculous. Ok so the second amendment says we have the right to own guns but why do we need the right to own semi-automatic riffles that are designed to kill lots of people? A lot of people want to change the guns laws but unfortunately the minority who believes it's ok to own military grade weapons are loud and the NRA has given lots of money to support people in our government. That's one of the biggest problems in this country is too many politicians are given money by organisations so they won't vote against whatever it is the company supports. The guns laws will probably never change in this country because of that. It sounds like you've already given up any hope of the laws changing which is sad. If the democratic process works properly a majority of people should sway laws to change. Maybe my opinion seems quite idealistic or naive but I think you have to have faith in the democratic process otherwise you've got nothing. I never thought the smoking ban would work in this country but it did. I've been a non-smoker for 10 years now.
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BogoGog24
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I'm off again in my world...
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 4, 2017 12:05:05 GMT
If some guy came in and shot a bunch of children to death and the laws STILL didn't change after that, I'm not sure what will. Concert security didn't seem to change either after Christina Grimmie was shot to death at her own show. That's our biggest problem IMO is that we continue sweeping these things under the rug and they still keep happening because nothing is ever done to change anything to stop it from happening again.
A valid point to make though is what happened in Manchester at the Ariana concert. The same thing could easily happen here or could have happened at the Vegas festival if we had no guns here. While I believe in stricter gun laws I also do believe the statement "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" rings true. It's never going to be completely preventable. We've seen countless incidents of people driving vans into crowds. Anything can be used as a weapon. But hopefully the incidents would be significantly decreased if gun laws were restricted since guns are usually the main reason these things happen.
Unfortunately the other issue is that what I've heard from lots of people or specifically from gun owners is that most people who want guns are responsible about them. They go through the training and getting the proper licenses, etc. They mainly have it for protection or for shooting practice (this is especially common in the southern region). They are responsible gun owners. Again, someone with the intent to kill is not gonna give a damn what the law is. They will find a way to get their hands on a weapon, gun or otherwise, if they want to kill. To be completely honest, I think the actual root problem is mental illness or religious extremism. The majority of these incidents are always due to the perpetrator having some untreated mental illness or they are affilitated with a terrorist group and have been brainwashed. THAT'S your real problem IMO. Perhaps if it started there instead of the gun law, since not everyone is ever gonna agree on that, we might actually see a bigger improvement.
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ben545
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MOTM March '16 - Banned
“If you ever need anything please don’t hesitate to ask someone else first.” Kurt Cobain
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Post by ben545 on Oct 4, 2017 12:31:20 GMT
It's funny, I used to make guns for the American market. Heat treating parts for Mini-uzis. It was all a big joke at work that we were making such nasty guns. It felt like a poisonous job to do. I made thousands of the fucking things. I don't know why we did so much work for America.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Oct 4, 2017 12:53:58 GMT
I wouldn't want Avril to speak about things she has no knowledge about, but as privileged as she is, I'm sure there are still things she can relate to and react to. For example like this shooting at a concert, maybe even rights for homosexual people (her best friend is openly gay) or health care (as she is probably aware that thousands of people with Lyme can't get the treatment she got). And I would like that she uses her power to raise awareness. Of course on a personal level, I hope that she is informed about politics and topics that affect society like racism, sexism etc because I believe that everyone should fight against this BS
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 13:47:54 GMT
The problem with history is so few people remember it, especially, it seems, on a Pop Star fan club site. Here is another view from an unknown author:
What Happens After Gun Confiscation?
Before we passively allow the politicians to strip away our last line of defense from an increasingly totalitarian government, by acquiescing to the United Nations and American advocates for gun control, perhaps we should examine the end game resulting from past gun control efforts:
1. In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves against their ethnic-cleansing government, were arrested and exterminated.
2. In 1929, the former Soviet Union established gun control as a means of controlling the “more difficult” of their citizens. From 1929 to the death of Stalin, 40 million Soviets met an untimely end at the hand of various governmental agencies as they were arrested and exterminated.
3. After the rise of the Nazi’s, Germany established their version of gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves against the “Brown Shirts”, were arrested and exterminated.
4. After Communist China established gun control in 1935, an estimated 50 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves against their fascist leaders, were arrested and exterminated.
5. Closer to home, Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayans, unable to defend themselves against their ruthless dictatorship, were arrested and exterminated.
6. Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves from their dictatorial government, were arrested and exterminated.
7. Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million of the “educated” people, unable to defend themselves against their fascist government, were arrested and exterminated.
8. In 1994, Rwanda disarmed the Tutsi people and being unable to defend themselves from their totalitarian government, nearly one million were summarily executed.
The total numbers of victims who lost their lives because of gun control is approximately 70 million people in the 20th century. The historical voices from 70 million corpses speak loudly and clearly to those Americans who are advocating for a de facto gun ban. Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined. Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals and it all followed gun control.
And, if you think it can't happen here in America, read about the brutal treatment and forceful gun confiscation of New Orleans citizens by our own government's armed military after Katrina.
A lot of people here in the US, in fact the majority, believe in individualism as opposed to state ordered thought and behavior control. That is one of the reasons we told the King to take a hike and formed our own union and though it is imperfect it is still the best in the world. Also note I have not stated my position on gun control. I was stating my disgust with a punk across the pond that believes he is the smartest guy in the room and finds it cute to disparage the people of my native country. Especially since without us, he'd be living in Nazi Germany right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 14:36:14 GMT
Look, guns aren't the most effective means to protect one's individualism. There is also multiple rocket launchers, for example, called here Reactive Salvo Fire Systems (the translation is mine, probably sucky). Like this, it's called "Smerch": This Soviet rust spits in seconds 30 cm missiles which might fly up to 70 km. 1 It's definitely a more powerful thing than just a gun, and I am sure many Texas cowboys could afford something similar if allowed. So where should the limit of individualism lay? Should it at all? Democracy is not an anarchy and all permissiveness. Citizens in democratic countries are heavily regulated by law. The difference from totalitarian countries, where the law is local kind of fuehrer. Maybe in 18th century guns were needed vitally for people to defend themselves. As swords and arbalests in 13th century. But in 21st century in a democartic country, it's really savagery. Resulting in only bad things. In modern world people should defend themselves by their mind, - voting thoughtfully on elections, not letting idiots take the power, being part of civil society, participating in it, controlling government etc. In such a society police would protect citizens from criminals. It's not perfect but way better and more stable than gun armed self-defension. 1 - And this is its little brother, multiple rocket launcher "Hurricane", posting this just to see it "in action". Wanted to show this long time ago, I have this video on the computer, but now I found it on youtube. It's not training. Winter of 2014, where I am living:
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 4, 2017 14:46:45 GMT
Especially since without us, he'd be living in Nazi Germany right now. Hmph. I've gone right off you.
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Avengium
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MOTM January '16, MOTM October '17
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Post by Avengium on Oct 4, 2017 14:49:45 GMT
I agree with a lot of you. Specially Katy, Andrea , Zaval, a few more. And i'm planning to write a long post to explain my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 14:58:07 GMT
Funny stuff z4. Seriously, ILMAO. Remember, however, America is not a democracy. We are a Republic. For those who don't know the difference:
"The key difference between a democracy and a republic lies in the limits placed on government by the law, which has implications for minority rights. Both forms of government tend to use a representational system — i.e., citizens vote to elect politicians to represent their interests and form the government. In a republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a "pure democracy," the majority is not restrained in this way and can impose its will on the minority".
The problem here is considering how our country was forged, the cat is already out of the bag so to speak. Trying to take away rights in America is like trying to stuff a Bobcat into a burlap sack.......good luck!
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sam
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MOTM October '18
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Post by sam on Oct 4, 2017 14:59:28 GMT
I was stating my disgust with a punk across the pond that believes he is the smartest guy in the room and finds it cute to disparage the people of my native country. Especially since without us, he'd be living in Nazi Germany right now. It's comments like these which will get this thread shut down very quickly - you have already stated twice why you acted towards the way you did towards Ben; don't ruin it for everyone else with provoking comments, it goes both ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:01:30 GMT
Especially since without us, he'd be living in Nazi Germany right now. Hmph. I've gone right off you. Hang on Katy, I know you don't mean to minimize our role in helping Britain defeat the Nazi's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:04:59 GMT
I was stating my disgust with a punk across the pond that believes he is the smartest guy in the room and finds it cute to disparage the people of my native country. Especially since without us, he'd be living in Nazi Germany right now. It's comments like these which will get this thread shut down very quickly - you have already stated twice why you acted towards the way you did towards Ben; don't ruin it for everyone else with provoking comments, it goes both ways. Blizz, Ben doubled down on his stupid statement and I responded. Talk to him.
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paperbackwriter
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Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me I am not mistaken in mine
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Post by paperbackwriter on Oct 4, 2017 15:08:03 GMT
As an American I can honestly say that many times over the past year I have thought there are too many stupid Americans in my country. I can't stand the embarrassment that is our government at the moment. And our gun laws are ridiculous. Ok so the second amendment says we have the right to own guns but why do we need the right to own semi-automatic riffles that are designed to kill lots of people? A lot of people want to change the guns laws but unfortunately the minority who believes it's ok to own military grade weapons are loud and the NRA has given lots of money to support people in our government. That's one of the biggest problems in this country is too many politicians are given money by organisations so they won't vote against whatever it is the company supports. The guns laws will probably never change in this country because of that. It sounds like you've already given up any hope of the laws changing which is sad. If the democratic process works properly a majority of people should sway laws to change. Maybe my opinion seems quite idealistic or naive but I think you have to have faith in the democratic process otherwise you've got nothing. I never thought the smoking ban would work in this country but it did. I've been a non-smoker for 10 years now. I haven't totally lost hope in the democratic process but my faith has been shaken pretty badly in the last year. I'll still vote and everything because I appreciate the right I have to vote, but I'm not hopeful like I used to be. There's a smoking ban in the UK? I recently moved here and I haven't seen this many people smoking since the 90s back home lol.
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sam
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Post by sam on Oct 4, 2017 15:09:27 GMT
It doesn't mean you have to follow suit - as has been stated exhaustively; if you see something you don't like report it. Tempting as it is, responding to dumb comments with dumb comments isn't going to help anyone and will get this thread locked.
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