BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 2, 2020 14:12:29 GMT
^ I agree, Lover is a great album with lots of great songs but I think it’s hard to listen to it in full often because it’s so lengthy. 18 tracks is a bit much, it easily could have been a few tracks shorter IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 15:37:30 GMT
Despite being quite frankly irritated by the sudden, relentless, OTT surge of feminism in recent years, I absolutely love this song lol. Ignoring the message it’s great fun. I agree, the song construction itself is good, despite the “message.” Like I said earlier, Taylor has capitalized on her femininity her entire career, just like guys have in the industry. She walked around in basically her underwear for years:). Pretty sure her success is somewhat about all that. And now she’s saying how woman should not be judged for their looks after she hits 30 and gains a few.
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Mar 2, 2020 16:39:31 GMT
In her undies for years? I've seen a different Taylor. The one who wore southern Belle or prom dresses to outright conservative 50s style bathing suits on vacation. Then she reached Tommy Hilfiger levels of preppy on Red. To slightly modern with crop tops but still preppy skirts and girlie leotards. And finally on Rep she started wearing those sexy one pieces. But I've never seen her in her undies 😂 one thing about taylor is that she always looks classy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 18:18:48 GMT
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 2, 2020 20:01:26 GMT
That’s not what the song talks about though. It’s about the double standards women in general face, but especially women in entertainment. Many of them have to work twice as hard as men to achieve the same things. You never really hear about male artists having to always outdo themselves and reinvent themselves to stay relevant, yet it is expected of female artists (think about how pop stars like Avril, Taylor, Britney, Ariana, Katy, etc. have done it album to album).
You also can never read a headline or watch an interview about a female artist/celeb without fashion being part of the conversation. “What I was wearing, if I was rude, could all be separated from my good ideas and power moves.” She’d be called a bitch if she went around bragging about her wealth (though frankly this is uncouth no matter the gender).
Everyone assumes if a woman is successful, it’s because she had a powerful team behind her to help, but the same is not necessarily always said about successful males. Taylor came up with the majority of both her musical as well as business ideas from the very beginning of her career. “They’d say I hustled, put in the work, they wouldn’t shake their heads and question how much of this I deserve.”
I feel that a lot of the double standards she talks about are more things that people would say because she’s Taylor Swift and not necessarily because she’s female though. Like I’ve never seen Avril for example get slut shamed by the media for her dating Iife or have people question her success.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 0:03:35 GMT
IMHO, your last paragraph says it all. I really think her haters are just plain jealous of her awesomeness. She has had a huge target on her back, no doubt. But like you implied, she is so unique that most of her angst really only applies to her.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on Mar 11, 2020 11:06:02 GMT
^ I agree, Lover is a great album with lots of great songs but I think it’s hard to listen to it in full often because it’s so lengthy. 18 tracks is a bit much, it easily could have been a few tracks shorter IMO. It's not the lenght the problem. Even Red is long and you can listen to it with no efforts. Lover lacks of what made Taylor Swift: matching the sound and the emotions with the lyrics.. The sound and production are mediocre with very few exceptions( False God, Daylight, Soon You Will Get Better and It's Nice To Have A Friend).. Jack Antonoff is the worst producer EVER and he just ruined Taylor songs, he worked on 1989 and even in reputation, but Lover, Lover he did bad, very bad.. he just don't blend the instruments together..he doesn't work for Taylor. Lover should have been an instrumental album a la Red. And another thing: thematically is not even that strong, many songs talk about the same thing of reputation: how she met him and fell in love with him. Did Joe not inspire her enough? She wrote Mine that is invented story and it's so perfect, it talks about the real love story from the start to the end. We don't know anything about Joe, why she loves him, what they do in their life..absoultely nothing. And i'm sad to say this because i love Taylor Swift but this album was not what she needed to write.. it sounds like she has to make it because she signed with a big label, but she rushed it so much. And fans love it and overrate it just because she OWNS it.. i remember they trashed Red and 1989 and now they don't even see a flaw on this album. They trashed Stay Stay Stay and they love London Boy...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 14:29:58 GMT
^ Very valid points and I agree Jack A is overrated. Even everyone’s fav “Getaway Car” has glitches in the sound track if you listen close enough. When Taylor started out they used the very best Nashville studio musicians playing killer banjo, guitar, mandolins, dobros and slides on her records. That is what sounded so great with her voice and style. Now, it’s all synthesizers and drum kits.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 11, 2020 18:39:44 GMT
I have to disagree. I think Jack is a great producer and his work is some of my favorite stuff Taylor has done. She probably doesn't go into much detail in the songs about why she loves Joe because she wants to keep their relationship private. You can read between the lines in the songs that basically she fell in love with him because he accepted her for her and not because she's famous. He wanted to be with her even when the whole world was against her, that's how she knew he really loved her. Based on other things she has said in interviews and stuff, she mentions that she wanted to be with him because his life was so much the opposite of hers, he was able to live in anonymity and had a "balanced" life, I think she was drawn to that because she didn't have that.
I think she wrote this album because she wanted to write something happy again after a dark era like reputation. Did she "need" to write this album? No, not really. But I understand why she did. For me, the issue with this album besides the length is that it's all over the place in terms of style and themes. It jumps around too much between different types of songs, especially for example having a song about her mother dying of cancer placed between a boppy song about London and a slow burner about sex.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on Mar 11, 2020 19:01:40 GMT
Like i said, he did great in 1989 and reputation, but Lover: his overproduced style didn't much for what she wanted to do for this album: a singer-songwriter journey(except that reputation is more a journey than Lover, but this is another story). He puts his style to Taylor lyrics, i heard Cruel Summer mashupped with his band song called Rollcaster something and damn that song sounded like Paper Rings a lot. Remember the days when fans were scared of Max Martin and then it turned out to be one of the best decitions Taylor have ever made(suggested by Borchetta, he knew what he was doing), he never repeated himself and none of songs produced by him sounded like something he produced for another singer.
Since i mentioned Borchetta, well.. he always suggested great things to her, if she had been with Big Machine still, Lover would have not been this way, he would have made her to reconsider what she was trying to do with this album and maybe now we would have a pop-rock album produced by Nathan Chapman instead of a 1989 wanna be album.
The fact that reputation was STUNNING and so unexpected and Lover sounds like a million of steps behind,False God was a great start to do something different and new.. When i heard Macavity from Cats, i thought that Lover would have been amazing with that retro-musical style.
As for Joe songs, yeah i know why she chose him, she wrote reputation based on that, that's why i don't understand why with Lover she wrote about the same subject again. Cornelia Street, I Think He Knows, Paper Rings, Cruel Summer could have fit in reputation..even The Archer..or Daylight is the missed closing track lol. After 3 years together i was expecting something more..everybody is praising Cruel Summer, but Sparks Fly and Treacherous are written better and they talk about the same thing: wanting someone and the fear of it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 20:39:26 GMT
I only said I think he’s overrated. Yes, he’s put together some catchy tunes for T Swizz and others but to me it’s just a little to formalistic. Working with Nathen again would be something I’d love, but he may not want to burn bridges with Scott. 😉
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 12, 2020 0:12:08 GMT
Remember the days when fans were scared of Max Martin and then it turned out to be one of the best decitions Taylor have ever made(suggested by Borchetta, he knew what he was doing), he never repeated himself and none of songs produced by him sounded like something he produced for another singer.When i heard Macavity from Cats, i thought that Lover would have been amazing with that retro-musical style. everybody is praising Cruel Summer, but Sparks Fly and Treacherous are written better and they talk about the same thing: wanting someone and the fear of it Bruh what? I love Max's work but literally all his songs are the same formulaic pop, no matter what artist he's working with. I did not like Macavity at all, it's too campy sounding, so I'm glad Taylor didn't make an album in that style! Cruel Summer is a great song and is praised for a reason. Yeah maybe Sparks Fly and Treacherous have more poetic sounding lyrics, but Cruel Summer has good lyrics too and is catchy af, one of the best songs she's ever done IMO. I really think if she released it as a single it'd go #1.
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Dillon
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Post by Dillon on Mar 12, 2020 0:46:02 GMT
I remember Taylor stating that she was the one who wanted to work with Max Martin. I do not recall it being Scott Borchetta’s idea.
And considering that Scott was not thrilled about Taylor wanting to go full on pop with 1989, I doubt he would’ve been the one to have the initial idea to work with Max Martin.
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heaven
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Post by heaven on Mar 12, 2020 10:08:00 GMT
Remember the days when fans were scared of Max Martin and then it turned out to be one of the best decitions Taylor have ever made(suggested by Borchetta, he knew what he was doing), he never repeated himself and none of songs produced by him sounded like something he produced for another singer.When i heard Macavity from Cats, i thought that Lover would have been amazing with that retro-musical style. everybody is praising Cruel Summer, but Sparks Fly and Treacherous are written better and they talk about the same thing: wanting someone and the fear of it Bruh what? I love Max's work but literally all his songs are the same formulaic pop, no matter what artist he's working with. I did not like Macavity at all, it's too campy sounding, so I'm glad Taylor didn't make an album in that style! Cruel Summer is a great song and is praised for a reason. Yeah maybe Sparks Fly and Treacherous have more poetic sounding lyrics, but Cruel Summer has good lyrics too and is catchy af, one of the best songs she's ever done IMO. I really think if she released it as a single it'd go #1. Songs like Dont Blame Me, Wildest Dreams, Dancing With Our Hands Tied, Style, King Of My Heart are pop perfection and different from each other and different from anything he did/does for the other artists. Its Jack Antonoff who is very very formulaic: he loves the robotic effect voice used in Getaway Car and Cruel Summer that is very sounding similiar to the first one, the intro and outro ate the same. He loves putting so much layers on the voice, God only knows why.. Songs like Daylight and Lover should have been pure, but he overproduced them so much vocally. Cruel Summer would have been trashed if it had been released in 2012. What changed? I remember Taylor stating that she was the one who wanted to work with Max Martin. I do not recall it being Scott Borchetta’s idea. And considering that Scott was not thrilled about Taylor wanting to go full on pop with 1989, I doubt he would’ve been the one to have the initial idea to work with Max Martin. There is an interview where Scott said that he suggested Max Martin when Taylor was trying to do some pop songs on Red with Nathan, but she didnt feel them to have the right sound.. And as for 1989, he was afraid of a full pop album, spnething that Red isn't.. he was afraid of losing country airplays and not having pop ones.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 12, 2020 13:25:43 GMT
Hmmm I always thought if not for Jack that rep would have been a very basic pop album, all the Max songs just kind of sounded the same, like Ready for It for example is a really basic pop song any artist could have made. Jack’s work sounded more unique and different (TIWWCHTN, Getaway Car, NYD, Dress, CIWYW). Guess it’s just a difference of taste. I also think that Getaway Car and Cruel Summer are meant to sound similar on purpose, Getaway Car talks about her jumping into a relationship as she’s leaving another, Cruel Summer kind of continues the story about how they have to sneak around and how she fell in love with someone she didn’t intend to. It’s a continuation of what happens after Getaway Car. Taylor always hides Easter eggs like that in her songs. It’s always intentional with her. Personally I thought it was clever to have them sound alike.
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