HeiBai
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Post by HeiBai on Jan 20, 2021 19:00:00 GMT
You didnt understand what I said xD I didn't said it doesn't have a clear narrative, which let's assume it has...even tho it was made up by us, fans, not her. It's all speculation at the end of the day, BUT yeah, let's say the narrative it's cohesive. But I was talking about theme, i don't how to say it, maybe it got lost in translation. What I mean is the symbolism, the art part of the song, the imagery and all that stuff. That's not cohesive, not even close. Water, birds, Fire, devil and hell, self-love song about a masseratti lol, boy-bashing-self-empowerment song, love songs and warriors. Think about how would you make a pciture or painting of every song, that's what I mean. Artistically speaking it's not cohesive. That was my point, it's a mess in terms of concepts. What you are talking about it's the message and the narrative behind the lyrics. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough, sorry xD I think the original complaint was that the booklet featured blurry photos! And I said that I think it's actually visually cohesive with the primary theme or starting point for her album.
But to add to the evolving discussion: You're right that a lot of the symbolism in the songs isn't truly cohesive but in my opinion it would get really boring if most of the songs on the album featured extremely similar symbolism. Imagine that most songs were about water and birds, it wouldn't really go anywhere and feel really repetitive. I much prefer them being about: "Water, birds, Fire, devil and hell, self-love song about a masseratti lol, boy-bashing-self-empowerment song, love songs and warriors". It tells the narrative she wants to tell through these metaphors for her struggles with illness, love, toxic relationships, etc. So we get her journey through these diverse metaphors. Not saying all of them are good but I think the album is therefore actually fairly cohesive in tone because it, like said above, features a narrative progression from her low point to discovering her own strength by highlighting various aspects of that journey through these metaphors.
Though everyone is free to have different opinions and if you feel it's messy that's fine too!
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Ino
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Post by Ino on Jan 23, 2021 20:42:41 GMT
Let God is such a monster album. It's interesting how Complicated & Sk8er Boi completely destroys Girlfriend there. I really hope she does something about it for it's 20th anniversary. It's her magnum opus, the most critically acclaimed one. It's time for Avril to takes more care about her legacy. I love Let Go but I still don't get why UMS isn't listened to as much... it's her best album people, come on! Let God is so much bigger than UMS in every way, the giant differences between the 2 in streaming should not surprise anyone. And like another user said, MHE is the only big remembered hit from that album. Compared to LG's Complicated, Sk8er Boi & I'm With You; it's not even a competion at this point. LG is a classic album of the 21st century period. UMS is a classic album for Little Black Stars.
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Jan 24, 2021 17:29:34 GMT
Did you notice that she's been following a lot of fan accounts on instagram. Most of them with the "bandaids" title 👀
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goodbye
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Post by goodbye on Jan 24, 2021 18:57:57 GMT
I love Let Go but I still don't get why UMS isn't listened to as much... it's her best album people, come on! Let God is so much bigger than UMS in every way, the giant differences between the 2 in streaming should not surprise anyone. And like another user said, MHE is the only big remembered hit from that album. Compared to LG's Complicated, Sk8er Boi & I'm With You; it's not even a competion at this point. LG is a classic album of the 21st century period. UMS is a classic album for Little Black Stars. I agree. DTM and NH are mostly forgotten and don't talk about HW. If she goes into the UMS direction I hope it will do well.
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orangesky
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Post by orangesky on Jan 24, 2021 19:26:23 GMT
Let God is so much bigger than UMS in every way, the giant differences between the 2 in streaming should not surprise anyone. And like another user said, MHE is the only big remembered hit from that album. Compared to LG's Complicated, Sk8er Boi & I'm With You; it's not even a competion at this point. LG is a classic album of the 21st century period. UMS is a classic album for Little Black Stars. I agree. DTM and NH are mostly forgotten and don't talk about HW. If she goes into the UMS direction I hope it will do well. If her sound is anything like Mod's then it seems like it'll be halfway between TBDT and UMS
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Jinkxx
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20 June 2008 & 04 May 2023 - The days I met Avril <3
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Post by Jinkxx on Jan 24, 2021 20:41:51 GMT
I found it a bit weird that even Brody Jenner talked about ‘back to her roots’. Like was that really her roots or just the beginning in her career and now she’s grown up and tries also other things (with HAW). Don’t get me wrong I like the sound but it seemed a bit forced with the whole ‘going back to her roots’. Like that’s the only thing she was good at or allowed to be successful with... what do you guys think?
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gabbox
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Post by gabbox on Jan 24, 2021 22:32:42 GMT
I understand what you guys mean, but I also remember things changed very fast those years... Let Go had sold more than 17 millions copies.. and TBDT, the most-sold album of the year for Sony and the 4th most sold in general, sold 8 million copies and was considered a huge success .. in just 5 years things had changed a lot in terms of numbers.
UMS anyways sold 12 million copies, so more than TBDT. Purely talking about Sales, UMS was very good, even better than the iconic Girfriend probably.
But again, I understand what you mean. MHE is still well remembered, but Complicated, Sk8r Boi and I'm With You are too iconic.
In my opinion though, even though Let Go is an amazing record, UMS was not less.. the production, the lyrics, the main theme.. it's a very good good record.
Anyways. Regardless our opinions I would be so happy if we could have a song out of AL7 to be so iconic. The New sk8r Boi. The new MHE.. The new Girlfriend. I would love a new iconic piece from her
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gabbox
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Post by gabbox on Jan 24, 2021 22:44:03 GMT
I found it a bit weird that even Brody Jenner talked about ‘back to her roots’. Like was that really her roots or just the beginning in her career and now she’s grown up and tries also other things (with HAW). Don’t get me wrong I like the sound but it seemed a bit forced with the whole ‘going back to her roots’. Like that’s the only thing she was good at or allowed to be successful with... what do you guys think? Yes I think it's a bit weird too. Considering when they were together she had just released WTH which was a huge success and Brody followed her all around the world for a huge big tour, probably her latest real huge world tour. Perhaps he didn't mean she's not successful anymore doing other things but maybe he meant that she started off with that rock/punk attitude and someway she seems to be going to that direction again with Flames
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rosegold
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Post by rosegold on Jan 24, 2021 22:59:51 GMT
JinkxxWell, her true roots were technically in christian and country music. That's what she grew up on. From all the interviews she's given over the years it seems like the switch to rock/pop-rock only happens when she moves to the USA to start working on her record. She says she was listening to Blink and Green Day in high school, but I've always gotten the impression that she only TRULY got into rock after her move when she found herself in a position where she was experiencing a bunch of new exciting things for the first time and trying to develop her identity while working with various musicians on her album. When she becomes "Avril Lavigne" in the public eye she does so by being the rock chick. Let Go was actually a rather diverse album with only a couple heavier tracks, but what got her famous beyond the pop-rock sound was her image, her attitude. She made a point to perform with a band and try to incorporate them into everything she did. She was outspoken and defiant and ended up breaking the mold of what being a pop artist in the 00s was all about up until that point. Her success and her legacy were built upon the combination of that rebellious young spirit & image she had with the rockier approach to the conventional pop formula of that era. UMS went darker and heavier and it remains a clear fan favorite among fans till this day. TBDT went lighter and more fun while holding onto the aggressive tones and instrumentation she was famous for, and it gave her her first and only #1 song on Billboard. Everything after that felt like a watered down version of what she had established up until that point for multiple reasons that go beyond just her sound, but the truth of the matter is that it failed to stick with the general audience. And it got progressively worse over the years as she grew less passionate as an artist and seemed to lack the fire and conviction she once had. Now, that's not to say she should remain confined to one specific genre. I for one appreciated her efforts in infusing a jazzier sound into some of her songs in HAW. I was also interested in the slightly indie vibe she explored in songs like Hello Heartache. And while I'm not a big fan of country music, I wouldn't mind seeing her tackle that genre since it's obviously something that meant a lot to her growing up and she seems to still enjoy it today. But with all of that being said, it's perfectly natural for people who became fans of Avril for what she established in the early days of her career to be excited to see her going back to those roots after so long. Specially when you consider the fact that coincidentally enough she goes back to pop-rock/pop-punk at time when that genre is being part of a cultural movement. In a way you could say she was part of a movement in the early 00s as well by opening the door of pop-punk to a wider female audience and making it more accessible to everybody. And now almost 20 years later she's back at it, this time to attempt to revive the genre and make it more present and more current in mainstream again, and that type of cultural movement makes her comeback even more meaningful and exciting, at least to me -- it holds more of a weight. I feel like I've been typing for 10 minutes so this is most definitely another tl;dr post by now, lmao. Gaaahhh sorry, I get excited, I guess Bottom line is: she should definitely continue playing with sounds and exploring new genres and I totally hope she does, but I'm definitely more than happy to see her going back to the essence that made me fall in love with her in the first place, specially when the timing is just so right for that.
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gabbox
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Post by gabbox on Jan 24, 2021 23:20:37 GMT
Her roots are Christian.. ok.. but who really knows it?
When somebody says “she’s back to her roots” doesn’t mean the songs she used to sing in church as a little girl but obviously the first songs she became famous with
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rosegold
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Post by rosegold on Jan 24, 2021 23:28:31 GMT
^ Yeah, that was precisely my point lmao Sorry, I know the post was too long to read through 🙈
Also it's worth pointing out that just because she's supposedly going back to pop-punk it doesn't mean she can't still play around with different influences and incorporate them into her music. I mean, this entire new wave of pop-punk artists is basically known for mixing a bunch of elements from different genres into the more traditional pop-punk sound, which is also why it sounds more current and more interesting than just a straight up copy of the pop-punk of the 00s.
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Jan 24, 2021 23:48:10 GMT
Rosegold pretty much said it all. Avril made her name making pop rock music where you could hear electric guitars and the drums. I think that's what a lot of people mean when they say she's going "back to her roots". Another thing is that people know her mostly because of upbeat tracks like SB. HAW was a ballad heavy era and AL was 8 years ago. It's been a long time since we got an upbeat song from her much less something with loud guitars and drums. With these instruments she's got her spark back.
Can she do something else? Yes she can and she has. I LOVED her using jazz elements in TMIO/Crush. On FF and GYWYL she had a nice indie pop sound. She has some unreleased country songs which I'm still interested in listening to. But mostly she went with a more pop oriented sound for GL-HAW. I love pop music but she wasn't as committed to making great pop music. It always felt watered down, basic, and disney sounding. It sucks because she has the voice for it. But whatever. I think this road she's taking is the appropriate one.
Also is she really going back to her roots if she's making pop punk music? I think she's still exploring her horizons because we only got a glimpse of pop punk on SB and a few other songs. It's mostly always been pop rock.
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Jinkxx
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20 June 2008 & 04 May 2023 - The days I met Avril <3
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Post by Jinkxx on Jan 25, 2021 9:02:55 GMT
Rosegold pretty much said it all. Avril made her name making pop rock music where you could hear electric guitars and the drums. I think that's what a lot of people mean when they say she's going "back to her roots". Another thing is that people know her mostly because of upbeat tracks like SB. HAW was a ballad heavy era and AL was 8 years ago. It's been a long time since we got an upbeat song from her much less something with loud guitars and drums. With these instruments she's got her spark back. Can she do something else? Yes she can and she has. I LOVED her using jazz elements in TMIO/Crush. On FF and GYWYL she had a nice indie pop sound. She has some unreleased country songs which I'm still interested in listening to. But mostly she went with a more pop oriented sound for GL-HAW. I love pop music but she wasn't as committed to making great pop music. It always felt watered down, basic, and disney sounding. It sucks because she has the voice for it. But whatever. I think this road she's taking is the appropriate one. Also is she really going back to her roots if she's making pop punk music? I think she's still exploring her horizons because we only got a glimpse of pop punk on SB and a few other songs. It's mostly always been pop rock.Exactly! It was a glimpse and now maybe more mature pop-punk. I hope we will get something in Feb since ModSun said: Now it's time for ur new music! rosegold: Very well explained! Totally true. It just seemed a bit over the top that everyone in comments on Insta, YouTube etc. is talking about: FINALLY AVRIL IS GOING BACK TO HER ROOTS. The pressure is real for her tho with all those comments.
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HeiBai
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Post by HeiBai on Jan 25, 2021 20:16:19 GMT
It just seemed a bit over the top that everyone in comments on Insta, YouTube etc. is talking about: FINALLY AVRIL IS GOING BACK TO HER ROOTS. The pressure is real for her tho with all those comments. The prevalence of that phrase is almost making me suspect that her new management/team is planting comments and directing the people around her to mention it and push this narrative of Avril going back to her roots to try to prime as many people as possible to anticipate and be wanting AL7's sound to be fairly pop punk/rock. That way people get super excited now because phrases like that get planted in their heads and when it releases it's confirmation bias and they'll rave about it because it's "exactly what they wanted all along". It's a sneaky way to maximize possible success and profitability.
What's this tinfoil doing on my head?
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lrb22
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SOTY '17
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Post by lrb22 on Jan 25, 2021 20:30:11 GMT
I thought her roots were Brunette?!
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