2000sclear
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Post by 2000sclear on Mar 15, 2024 18:30:05 GMT
I don’t think most teens today even know who Avril is. They might have heard of her, would recognize some of her songs, but she hasn’t charted well in over a decade… she’s just not part of their music lexicon, nor should she be. That’s why she should be making music for her adult fans. People like Olivia know her because they’re passionate about music and work in the industry, but Renee Rapp saying she didn’t know who Kylie Minogue was is a perfect example of Olivia being an exception for knowing 2000’s artists, not the example. Also, Gen Z is not the only demographic using Spotify lol… part of Taylor’s success is that she’s multigenerational. Plus, you have gender at play as well… while most guys in high school may listen to rap and country, a lot of the girls may listen to a broader range of music. So there’s a lot at play for many of the arguments I’m seeing in here That's comum. Remember when Avril was 18 and didn't who David Bowie was? Everyone was shocked. She was also sold as a rock artist on her debut but she didn't know many classic rock albums: www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/avril-lavigne-little-miss-cant-be-wrong-180369/“The first night we hung out, she took us to a bar,” says drummer Brann. “Within five minutes she’s like, ‘We’re gonna do body shots. Pour salt on my neck and then lick it. We were doing tequila, tequila, tequila right away. I was like, ‘This girl is insane. This is going to be like Motley Crüe.’” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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katy
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Post by katy on Mar 15, 2024 20:57:47 GMT
Idk why the David Bowie thing became such a big deal really. She mispronounced it so what, if she hadn’t even heard of him so what? It’s not like he’s the kind of thing she claimed to grow up listening to. I grew up listening to a lot of rock music but never crossed paths with any of his music. I’ve always been a lil skeptical of some of Avrils claims about what she was like/what she was into as a teen but never understood why that one blew up so much lol. You dont have to know of everyone, especially when you’re 16!
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 15, 2024 22:37:28 GMT
Tbh I understand why people made a big deal out of it, he’s a legendary artist and she mispronounced his name. I don’t fault her for not knowing it and I don’t think she deserved such harsh criticism for it, especially cause she was only a kid, but someone should have made sure she knew ahead of time how to say it. It ended up just embarrassing her. And is a bit disrespectful to the artist. He probably didn’t care but you know, it’s like a basic sign of respect to know how to say someone’s name, especially when announcing them for a major award. How many times has Avril’s name been botched and fans have gotten annoyed?
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TamyXD
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Post by TamyXD on Mar 16, 2024 0:48:11 GMT
I get where both sides are coming from, but overall, I agree with Bogo. As a musician, not knowing who came before you, who shaped the industry that you're a part of, just seems kind of unprofessional. It's like an aspiring poet not knowing who Oscar Wilde is, a cook not knowing Gordon Ramsay, a chemist not knowing Marie Curie, a painter not knowing Frida Kahlo, a fantasy author not knowing Tolkien. If you're intersted in a certain topic, you're bound to come across certain names at some point. If you don't, that just seems like maybe you're not that interested in it after all. Like I said, it just seems a bit unprofessional. Sure, it's not the end of the world, especially if you're really young and new to the industry, like Avril was. But she definitely should have gotten some sort of crash course about the history of rock and pop music imo, so she could at least have heard the name David Bowie before.
Also, how many of us would be annoyed if Olivia, Willow, or any other Gen Z pop-rock artist had said "uh, yeah, I think I mispronounced someone's name, was it Avril... Lavigne?", making it clear they don't only not know how to pronounce her name, but also don't even know the person that played a huge part in paving the way for them and other female pop-rock artists?
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ame · 雨
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Post by ame · 雨 on Mar 16, 2024 0:49:17 GMT
I agree that she should've learned the names at least.
But i disagree about knowing who came before you "as a must". You can learn the basics about music and start composing a generic acoustic ballad without knowing who ed sheeran is, or writting engaging lyrics without knowing who taylor swift is. I agree that the background matters a lot and of course a japanese song writter maybe doesn't even know about adele or the beatles. and that's ok for his background.
I don't get the point because people get inspiration from everything in life and just because a new chick in 2024 decides to make pop-rock and punk music doesn't mean she has to know who Avril or Hayley williams are. It's just nonsese to think that my inspiration comes from someone i don't know or simply didn't take inspiration from. it doesn't make sense. That's my point.
Of course, knowing who came before you once you are in the industry can only be benficial for you and your reputation but it's definitely not a must and especially back in the day.
For example just because i start to draw anime and become a professional artist or whatever and i specifically credit the anime industry (dragon ball (rip toriyama) or naruto or whatever anime) doesn't mean i have to credit the american animated industry which anime was inspired by. Or maybe we should go all the way to the classic artists? We could just go back in time over and over again having discussions about "who did it first". But that's not the point. The point is for you, as an aritst, what inspired you. And she was not inspired by david bowie and didn't even know him. It's not disrespectful to not know something. (yet she could've at least learned how to spell his name, obviously).
And not knowing the history of your field may be a sign of ignorance but definitely not arrogance, because you don't need to know the whole art history in order to make a magnificent painting. and you definitely don't need to know the whole history of rock music to make rock music. Will it be helpful? definitely. More knowledge is always better than staying just as we are. My point is that you are not less of an artist based on your knowledge about history. Your art speaks for youself and that's what it counts.
Sorry if this is too long, it does hit me personally bc in art school they used to link my works to artists i didn't even know about, something like "well, X and Y talked about this idea in a very similar way in 1977 in a video project, did you get inspired by them, right?" and me...meanwhile inspiring all my works which were paintings and photography, (not even video) from anime and pop culture. So i understand the feeling of "well, idk David Bowie, what's the big deal?"
And i for sure agree that we should show respect for the people who paved the way as they had the courage to break boundaries and change things BUT they are not responsible for other's people's hard work. Avril maybe got lucky, that doesn't mean she didn't work her ass off to be where she is. And yet, if Olivia decided to make the most UMS album ever and not even know who Avril was, i wouldn't be mad bc it's her work. And if she got inspired by an emo girl in a movie instead of Avril WELL that's fine with me.
I understand my opinion is not popular (it wasn't in art school either SO xD its ok, just sharing my thoughts i guess)
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TamyXD
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Post by TamyXD on Mar 16, 2024 2:01:01 GMT
Of course you can create music without knowledge about other musical artists. And you can definitely write pop-rock music without knowing or being inspired by Avril or Paramore or any other pop-rock artist. But once you're in the industry, once you're seen as a professional, or trying to be seen as a professional, I think it's just part of that industry to know certain names, regardless of whether they actually inspired you or not. Like I said previously, aren't you bound to come across certain names at some point, even if you're just mildly interested in a topic?
For example, I have zero interest in fashion. But even I've heard of brands like Gucci and Chanel; I know who Karl Lagerfeld is. I know Naomi Campbell. If an aspiring model or designer told me they've never heard of any of these names, I'd be baffled tbh. How come they've never heard of these brands and people? There might be perfectly good reasons; for example, in different parts of the world, different brands, designers, and models are much more popular/known than where I live, so of course they might not know these people and brands that I mentioned, but instead they know others that I've never heard of. But that wasn't the case with Avril when she didn't seem to know who David Bowie was.
Still, I do get the other side of the argument, too. And I do think it really sucks when someone's work is discredited just because they don't know a certain name; or when someone's work is expected to be inspired by whoever came before them, just because there are similarities.
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2000sclear
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Post by 2000sclear on Mar 16, 2024 4:22:36 GMT
Best I can tell Avril didn’t really get into rock until a couple years before Let Go came out & she was 17 at the time, so her not knowing one of the MANY successful 70s/80s rock musicians yet is far from unfathomable, especially considering there was no Spotify at the time.
At the same time though the reaction was justified imo, hardcore rock fans were very much so in their rights to be ticked off by Avril at the time for a number of reasons lol. She was definitely set up for failure in that regard by her label though: they made her make the album more pop than she wanted and none of her songs were sent to rock radio (even Losing Grip), all while pushing a “skater punk”/“rock chick” image. I do really wonder how everything would have worked out if she was allowed to go full out rock on the album like she wanted. I don’t even feel like Unwanted and Losing Grip give a good idea for how such an album would’ve sounded since they were tamed so tremendously in production.
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katy
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Post by katy on Mar 16, 2024 8:46:09 GMT
I agree that she should've learned the names at least. But i disagree about knowing who came before you "as a must". You can learn the basics about music and start composing a generic acoustic ballad without knowing who ed sheeran is, or writting engaging lyrics without knowing who taylor swift is. I agree that the background matters a lot and of course a japanese song writter maybe doesn't even know about adele or the beatles. and that's ok for his background. I don't get the point because people get inspiration from everything in life and just because a new chick in 2024 decides to make pop-rock and punk music doesn't mean she has to know who Avril or Hayley williams are. It's just nonsese to think that my inspiration comes from someone i don't know or simply didn't take inspiration from. it doesn't make sense. That's my point. Of course, knowing who came before you once you are in the industry can only be benficial for you and your reputation but it's definitely not a must and especially back in the day. For example just because i start to draw anime and become a professional artist or whatever and i specifically credit the anime industry (dragon ball (rip toriyama) or naruto or whatever anime) doesn't mean i have to credit the american animated industry which anime was inspired by. Or maybe we should go all the way to the classic artists? We could just go back in time over and over again having discussions about "who did it first". But that's not the point. The point is for you, as an aritst, what inspired you. And she was not inspired by david bowie and didn't even know him. It's not disrespectful to not know something. (yet she could've at least learned how to spell his name, obviously). And not knowing the history of your field may be a sign of ignorance but definitely not arrogance, because you don't need to know the whole art history in order to make a magnificent painting. and you definitely don't need to know the whole history of rock music to make rock music. Will it be helpful? definitely. More knowledge is always better than staying just as we are. My point is that you are not less of an artist based on your knowledge about history. Your art speaks for youself and that's what it counts. Sorry if this is too long, it does hit me personally bc in art school they used to link my works to artists i didn't even know about, something like "well, X and Y talked about this idea in a very similar way in 1977 in a video project, did you get inspired by them, right?" and me...meanwhile inspiring all my works which were paintings and photography, (not even video) from anime and pop culture. So i understand the feeling of "well, idk David Bowie, what's the big deal?" And i for sure agree that we should show respect for the people who paved the way as they had the courage to break boundaries and change things BUT they are not responsible for other's people's hard work. Avril maybe got lucky, that doesn't mean she didn't work her ass off to be where she is. And yet, if Olivia decided to make the most UMS album ever and not even know who Avril was, i wouldn't be mad bc it's her work. And if she got inspired by an emo girl in a movie instead of Avril WELL that's fine with me. I understand my opinion is not popular (it wasn't in art school either SO xD its ok, just sharing my thoughts i guess) This! Like I’m sorry but if someone like Olivia didn’t know Avril/mispronounced Lavigne why would anyone be angry about it?! She’s a different generation, everyone has their own heroes and legendary artists they grew up respecting, that can’t be every single past artist. These people are singers not historians. Did she grow up listening to rock? Idk maybe not. Will I EVER care if anyone hasn’t heard of an artist from 10 years before they were born? Not really. It was just another stick to beat her with at the time from losers who took any chance to discredit her for not being “punk”, as if that really mattered to anyone other than them I was more surprised when Avril didn’t know the words to Dear Maria last year. That’s something I would expect her to have come across given her age/genre/friends lol
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oneofthoseguys
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Post by oneofthoseguys on Mar 16, 2024 21:46:21 GMT
let's not compare david bowie's impact on music and his legacy with Avril Lavigne.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2024 21:47:41 GMT
let's not compare david bowie's impact on music and his legacy with Avril Lavigne. Nobody is? And why you making that sound like Avril is some joke?
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oneofthoseguys
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Post by oneofthoseguys on Mar 16, 2024 21:50:51 GMT
let's not compare david bowie's impact on music and his legacy with Avril Lavigne. Nobody is? And why you making that sound like Avril is some joke? Do you know David Bowie?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2024 21:52:09 GMT
Nobody is? And why you making that sound like Avril is some joke? Do you know David Bowie? Yes I do know who he is nobody was comparing them thl. they just said about Avril not knowing him that well.
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Razorqo21
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Post by Razorqo21 on Mar 16, 2024 22:22:20 GMT
Is this the right topic for this thread ?
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 17, 2024 13:05:01 GMT
Agree, I think this topic has run its course now, let’s get back on topic to leaked songs please.
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tirasayshello
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Post by tirasayshello on Mar 18, 2024 12:00:50 GMT
Has there been any more information regarding leaks or stuff along those lines? If not then people are going to find something to talk about. I haven't heard anything in a while, partly since I haven't looked in a bit. Could I get a bit of fill-ins because I don't want to scroll all the way back in this thread.
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