BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 18, 2023 12:05:20 GMT
Another doc I just remembered is Ed Sheeran’s “The Sum of It All.” I like some of his music but I don’t follow him or anything, but I was intrigued to watch it because he talked about the death of his best friend and this was all happening when his wife was pregnant and also had cancer at the same time. All of this inspired the Subtraction album so it was cool to see how what was going on in his life inspired his musical process.
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 18, 2023 12:18:06 GMT
Her biggest issue will be connecting with an audience (outside of her fanbase) I think. She’s not well liked amongst the general public like some celebs are. People think she’s childish/rude/needs to grow up. She needs to make sure that’s not the perception they get from a documentary too, because let’s be honest she does often give off that vibe lol
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gabbox
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Post by gabbox on Oct 18, 2023 13:52:39 GMT
Exactly, this is correct. Just like the "shocking" news about Ed Sheehan which Bogo talked about, look at new Britney Spears' book coming out. Yes it's true there has been a lot of buzz about it already, but the news about her abortion with JT is putting so much interest in this book coming out.
Now I'm not saying Avril needs to use such a shocking story, but there must be something "catchy" for people, or they won't watch it.
Also, she needs to use this documentary for AL8, because she already used the "back after the disease" card and she also used already the "back to the roots - punk rock" card, what can she use now not to have her next album ignored?
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TomX
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Post by TomX on Oct 18, 2023 13:57:05 GMT
I honestly don't care about knowing more of her time with Lyme. I think we learned more than enough, and she clearly hates the subject. It's past her already and she said everything she had to say back in the day.
She should keep it music-focused mostly, making some references to her exes in terms of how they contributed to her music (Deryck in TBDT and GL, Chad in AL and HAW , and maybe some honorable mention to Pete and whatever they cooked up in their time together lol). Mod Sun will most likely not even be mentioned for obvious reasons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 14:04:13 GMT
I honestly don't care about knowing more of her time with Lyme. I think we learned more than enough, and she clearly hates the subject. It's past her already and she said everything she had to say back in the day. She should keep it music-focused mostly, making some references to her exes in terms of how they contributed to her music (Deryck in TBDT and GL, Chad in AL and HAW , and maybe some honorable mention to Pete and whatever they cooked up in their time together lol). Mod Sun will most likely not even be mentioned for obvious reasons. I need to know what happened to make Av not even mention him when Mod and his friends still mention her (TBF in rather gross ways) jell during tour when saying who worked ont he album with her, she completely skipped mod even though he was a massive part of the album. Did he make her sign an NDA saying she cant mention him? Im legit curious cuz wtf.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 18, 2023 14:40:02 GMT
I honestly don't care about knowing more of her time with Lyme. I think we learned more than enough, and she clearly hates the subject. It's past her already and she said everything she had to say back in the day. She should keep it music-focused mostly, making some references to her exes in terms of how they contributed to her music (Deryck in TBDT and GL, Chad in AL and HAW , and maybe some honorable mention to Pete and whatever they cooked up in their time together lol). Mod Sun will most likely not even be mentioned for obvious reasons. Yeah but the point we’re making is that the GP doesn’t necessarily know about all that and it’s something that would hook them in to watch it. Only fans will care about the music part, but to sell documentaries like this there needs to be something personal in it (see previously mentioned examples of Selena, Taylor, Ed, Paris, etc.) Nobody but her fans is going to care about the music part. If they want more people to watch jt, they care about her personal life details, I doubt the GP knows much about her Lyme experience, maybe other than that she had it. Pretty sure Shania discussed it in her doc too?
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giveuwhatulike
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Post by giveuwhatulike on Oct 18, 2023 16:14:21 GMT
She's already in the halloween mood
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TomX
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Post by TomX on Oct 18, 2023 16:44:16 GMT
I honestly don't care about knowing more of her time with Lyme. I think we learned more than enough, and she clearly hates the subject. It's past her already and she said everything she had to say back in the day. She should keep it music-focused mostly, making some references to her exes in terms of how they contributed to her music (Deryck in TBDT and GL, Chad in AL and HAW , and maybe some honorable mention to Pete and whatever they cooked up in their time together lol). Mod Sun will most likely not even be mentioned for obvious reasons. Yeah but the point we’re making is that the GP doesn’t necessarily know about all that and it’s something that would hook them in to watch it. Only fans will care about the music part, but to sell documentaries like this there needs to be something personal in it (see previously mentioned examples of Selena, Taylor, Ed, Paris, etc.) Nobody but her fans is going to care about the music part. If they want more people to watch jt, they care about her personal life details, I doubt the GP knows much about her Lyme experience, maybe other than that she had it. Pretty sure Shania discussed it in her doc too? She could touch on that subject, but I don't think it should even be a chapter in the documentary. I'd rather have a chapter on the Melissa conspiracy theory, since that made a lot more headlines than Lyme. Other than her fans and some casual listeners, I don't think so many are aware she's had it, but every person on this planet will tell you about how she got replaced by a clone lol. I just don't think she wants to go back to that. Even in the HAW era she was so over discussing it and that was the perfect time for her to go deep on the subject. She'll probably just say "I got sick, thought I was dying and I made an album out of it" and brush it off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 17:13:41 GMT
She's already in the halloween mood Good so am I!!
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oneofthoseguys
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Post by oneofthoseguys on Oct 18, 2023 17:38:36 GMT
How can you wish or celebrate the idea of having her relationships as the main subject of a documentary about her CAREER?
Geez, I'm a fan. I want unseen images, untold stories about her work, new footage of her world tours. I think casual listeners already had their spotlight over the years on her tours mostly.
This doc will be a great oportunity to explore her artistry and show how talented she is.
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 18, 2023 17:46:45 GMT
How can you wish or celebrate the idea of having her relationships as the main subject of a documentary about her CAREER? Geez, I'm a fan. I want unseen images, untold stories about her work, new footage of her world tours. I think casual listeners already had their spotlight over the years on her tours mostly. This doc will be a great oportunity to explore her artistry and show how talented she is. I don’t think anyone said it should be the main subject, but because it needs to be interesting enough for the general public if it’s ever going to see the light of day. So she needs to give something more personal. Can’t show her artistry if nobody is watching. Plus it’d actually be quite interesting to hear her thoughts on it all imo, she worked with all her husbands/fiancés and most boyfriends
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 17:50:51 GMT
How can you wish or celebrate the idea of having her relationships as the main subject of a documentary about her CAREER? Geez, I'm a fan. I want unseen images, untold stories about her work, new footage of her world tours. I think casual listeners already had their spotlight over the years on her tours mostly. This doc will be a great oportunity to explore her artistry and show how talented she is. I don’t think anyone said it should be the main subject, but because it needs to be interesting enough for the general public if it’s ever going to see the light of day. So she needs to give something more personal. Can’t show her artistry if nobody is watching. Plus it’d actually be quite interesting to hear her thoughts on it all imo, she worked with all her husbands/fiancés and most boyfriends No it would be interesting for sure i think so. Maybe not like Phillp cuz nobody really cares about him but Mod, Chad,Deryck, maybe not Rotem because he legit abused her unless they wanna get really dark with that.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 18, 2023 18:11:00 GMT
Who knows what she’s allowed to talk about when it comes to other people though. She could definitely talk about them in the context of working with them but who knows if she can divulge any personal details without their consent.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 18:19:19 GMT
Who knows what she’s allowed to talk about when it comes to other people though. She could definitely talk about them in the context of working with them but who knows if she can divulge any personal details without their consent. True true. Chad i feel like is fine though. Pretty sure Chad is still in love with her. He would defintley give her premission. Pete, did they even work together on anything? deryck for sure too they still got alot of respect for each other theyre sitll besties. I remember them going out with Mod once. Rotem and Mod tho, probably. not.
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damncoldnights
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Post by damncoldnights on Oct 18, 2023 18:23:12 GMT
I'm honestly surprised she even agreed/wanted to do a documentary. I know there were a couple back in the day, but that was at like the height of her popularity. It seemed like they were filming stuff during the HAW tour, which at the time I think we assumed was to be used in a Warrior music video as the ending of the HAW era, before the pandemic happened and it became WAW. Is it possible they were filming the documentary with the goal of having it released for LG's 20th anniversary but that got derailed by the pandemic? But back to my original point: her previous documentaries could (and did) easily focus on her music/career because she was so popular back then and her personal life wasn't as, uh, dramatic/interesting (divorces, Lyme, etc). Whereas now, she has to know that to get people to watch, she'd need to talk about more than just her career and music (not that she even actually talks about her music for the most part lol). Because the general public probably doesn't care about her career, fans are already very familiar with her career, and she basically tells the same stories over and over about the early parts of her career. My point being, at this point, her personal life is arguably more interesting than her career, even for die-hard fans because we do have documentaries and interviews from back in the day. Hell, there are even 1 hour long videos on YouTube of her driving around LA in like 2002/2003. I'm not sure how much new info there is to spill (that won't become problematic with the "who wrote what on LG" issues, the Cliff being weird stuff) that she hasn't already talked about even in recent LS interviews. I could see it possibly working if she took an "eras" approach to it: - Let Go: they've gotta have some unseen footage of writing/recording LG and BTS tour stuff. She always talks about how hard she worked back then (and thru TBDT), it would be interesting to hear about things she maybe feels she missed out on by not having a "normal" teenage life, how she felt having to grow up quickly (although obviously whether that has even happened yet is debatable haha), her grandfather -the family member she's said she was closest to- passing away while she was touring, deciding to still do the show the day it happened... her thoughts as an adult about how the media pit her and other young women against each other. It would be very interesting especially in light of what's come out about Britney the past few days. Cause I remember Avril making comments about how Britney dresses, and then some time later realizes she shouldn't have said that and told the interviewer that people should leave Britney alone.
- UMS: did she feel pressure to have her sophomore album be as successful as the first one? Fighting with Arista (?) about how she wanted MHE to be the lead single but they vetoed her, leading into a discussion about how she's had to fight for her visions. She's talked about this throughout the years but moreso recently, again could be interesting cause of the Taylor-Scooter thing. I think it would be interesting if she'd actually go into more depth than what she's already said about it. Cause she's basically on been like "yeah I had to fight to have my voice heard, and to have my songs/albums the way I wanted, and I've also unfortunately had to compromise too." But it must have really sucked and been exhausting and, I imagine, eaten at her confidence at times, especially when she was younger.
- TBDT: talking about this era would be tricky cause of Dr. Luke, and she probably doesn't want to get sued lol. They'd have to include the clip from the making of TBDT video of her pepper spraying him. I'd very interested to hear more in depth about how that album came about, especially since she seemed drunk for most of it. And that recent interview where she said they started writing Girlfriend as she was walking out the door. I'd also want her to talk about the impact the fan backlash had on her. Maybe how though the public never necessarily liked her, they started being downright nasty (which, granted, she fed into that with the bratty persona but I think she thought it was obvious it was more of a caricature for the era). What was it like writing a more-or-less fictional breakup album while being married?
- Goodbye Lullaby: sooooo much to get into here. I'm very curious about that one show in Brazil (I think?) where like the entire show is on YouTube, maybe in multiple videos, but I swear she was drunk because she was definitely not herself, seemed drunk, and got progressively more drunk-seeming and emotional throughout the show. For all her talk about loving drinking and being a "rockstar," I feel like the only time she's performed drunk was when the GooGoo Dolls had her sing Iris with them. I've always wondered what was up with that concert. Obviously there's also her first divorce to discuss.
- AL: since she likes to forget she even has a self-titled album, I'd say she can just talk about getting Lyme on tour. And Chad.
- HAW: Lyme. 2nd divorce. Rotem. Turning down a proposal. Philip. She's talked a fair amount about this time of her life (by Avril standards), but this is IMO where she could really get the public to like her a little more -not that I think she necessarily cares about that all that much, but I think most people can relate to having a really rough period of your life. The YouTube comments on interviews from that era generally are fairly positive along the lines of "man I really feel for her, I wasn't fond of her years ago with that Girlfriend stuff, she seemed stuck up and just a Hollywood party girl, but she's really grown up and has a good head on her shoulders." Other people commented that they found comfort in knowing someone else out there has gone through something similar to them, whether it was severe illness, divorce, losing friends, or toxic relationships. She lost a lot of friends cause she wasn't the fun party girl anymore -what was it like realizing your so-called friends only hung out with you cause it was fun to drink and be crazy with you but at the end of the day, they weren't really your friends. What was it like being someone who [likely] never thought she'd end up in a toxic relationship, much less have such a hard time deciding to leave? Being vulnerable and not in a good head space and then having him swoop in? Finally getting back to herself, picking herself back up after such a rough 5 years. Clearly she had thoughts/feelings about it based on Bright. Some people felt that her talking about the Lyme diagnosis was an attempt to get attention, especially with the GMA interview, so this could be an opportunity to clarify how misleadingly edited that interview was and highlight that the only reason she even disclosed her diagnosis in the first place was to raise awareness (although apparently to also put to rest rumors that she was MIA from a mental breakdown due to divorce/AL5 flopping). These issues are all deep and hard to talk about, but there are soooo many people who can identify with them and maybe feel less alone hearing someone else talk about them. From what she did discuss, the general public was pretty receptive and bringing awareness to the things she went through could help people. Taking off her "IDGAF" persona and letting people see that different side of her helped people connect and definitely changed a lot of people's opinions of her for the better. Unless you're The Guardian lmao .
- Love Sux: it would be really interesting to hear more details about how she finally landed on Travis' label. I'd love for her to talk more about the making of the album but since Mod had such a huge role that probably won't happen... What was it like finally being on a label where she felt total artistic freedom? How did it feel having her first proper world tour since the pandemic forced her to cancel most of the HAW world tour? What's it like having these new artists being compared to her? This would be a great spot for her to then reflect on the ups and downs of her career, her struggles and victories, how the things in her personal life effected her work. Lessons she's learned, things she still hopes to do.
- Post-LS: obviously depends on if the documentary is done being filmed prior to AL8. There's lottssss she could talk about haha. One possible topic (aside from the obvious): she's always been interested in fashion, but why the sudden push to be at PFW and desire to go to the Met Gala? More detailed discussion of her star on the Walk of Fame. Also about how it felt performing a Shania song at a Shania tribute all these years after being discovered for singing at a Shania concert.
In reality, I just don't see her talking about most of the stuff I mentioned. Or she'd only touch the surface, so it would be a repeat of things we already know. She finally at the end of HAW/beginning of LS started admitting that it was hard being a young woman in the music business, that she wasn't taken seriously, etc, after years of interviews where she said she never had any problems (for the most part) and was never bothered by any of it -she just stood her ground and mostly got her way. As far as Lyme goes, as much as I agree that we don't need her to rehash the whole thing, but it DID impact her career directly (forced hiatus, slow process of making the album) and indirectly (led to her being in a mindset that allowed Rotem to swoop in, so all the time spent writing with him that could've been spent with a non-toxic producer/writer went to waste and she had to rewrite and record songs to take their place). And the reality is that these days, documentaries need to have a good chunk of the time dedicated to discussion of the artist's personal life because in general people care more about that. Selena and Taylor's documentaries were so successful because they talked about the deep stuff, as others have said. Even non-fans seemed to gain a huge amount of respect for them after they released their documentaries because yeah they touched on issues that so many people face and raised awareness, but it also showed how even celebrities who seem to more or less have a perfect life can be struggling so much more than they let on. I remember how much more sympathetic the public became to Katy Perry cause of the scene where what's-his-name texted her that he wanted a divorce right before she was supposed to go on stage. I'm not saying Avril should sit there crying as she reveals every detail of her life, or share anything that should stay between her and Deryck/Chad/Mod (unless she's setting the record straight about something), or even go too far out of her comfort zone. But in general, talking about yourself especially the hard stuff isn't the most comfortable feeling in the world -but there's a difference between "man I hate feeling vulnerable and I'm feeling vulnerable right now" and "I'm not comfortable discussing this."
If done right, I think a documentary could be really good and be a positive thing for her career. But she needs to be able to convince the general public watching it that she's grown up and being serious, not just doing the documentary for attention or something. That there's more to her than beer, rose, guitars, and eyeliner. She's been in the spotlight since she was a teenager and had huge success immediately, yet she does have a good head on her shoulders and has generally avoided the trouble a lot of other famous teenagers find themselves in as they grow up. She's remained successful 20+ years into her career. She seems like a normal person by celebrity standards (cooks, doing activities with friends, pumps her own gas, etc). All that to say, the media's portrayal of her in general (bratty, dumb) isn't entirely accurate just on virtue of the fact that she manages to be a normal human and is staying successful in a business where typically your career is short lived. Acknowledge she was a bit of a handful as a teenager (which she has in some interviews) and maybe into her early 20's, but convince the public that she's not another Hollywood perpetual teenage-singer and that she truly is an artist. But if it's just a repeat of the same information from interviews that we get over and over without much new info, it's just going to come across as an attention-grab.
I do wonder if -aside from her usual reasons for it taking longer to put an album out than she thinks it will- they decided to push AL8 back if the documentary is almost done? End of the LS era seemed like it would've been a natural place to end the documentary since it was "back to her roots" in regards to her career and "about to get married" in regards to her personal life. And then February happened, and they had to keep filming because they obviously couldn't end the documentary with her happily engaged anymore. And the PFW appearance gives her an opportunity to discuss her interest in fashion and maybe plans to get back into it in the future. Since AL8 is probably going to address what went down in February, it would make sense to include it in the documentary, and with the 20th anniversary of UMS coming up 2024 too.
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