blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 22, 2024 15:50:17 GMT
I just mentioned these artists not for comparison between them, but rather to highlight what would be a norm in the music industry that applies to several artists. I don't think they are pretending to be good or elevated instrumentalists, but it's just part of their persona, most of them just play what they are to able to and what they know, not for some kind of music recital purposes but actually as pure entertainers. For instance, look at Britney Spears trying to play Everytime on the piano. She could barely sing and was even worse at playing, even though people consider this one of her most famous performances. I think Avril's skills are fine for what she is proposed to be in terms of entertaining mainstream artist. When we were younger, we used to look at her as something over the top, but now it's clear that she's closer to every other mainstream pop artist, and to me I just accepted that. Even she is assuming that. I remember more recently she once said she does rock-influenced pop music. I liked this definition, it seems more mature of her to be "labeled" like that. The way Britney played piano in Onyx Tour isnt much far from they way Avril played piano in Slipped Away during Bonez Tour. Do you really think that? I Googled Britney's performances on the tour, and I couldn't even see her moving her hands at the instrument, which makes me think it was probably playing back the piano. By the way, I also noticed that Britney's vocals were so weak at the beginning of her career (2003). I thought this was something she started to lose after years of use... no feud intended tho. But as I said, I think Avril's skills are enough for a pop, mainstream, commercial artist. I mean, just look at Madonna playing the guitar during her late '90s/early 2000s eras - she was incredibly basic and and still is, even though she's an artist that keeps challenging herself. This is an industry thing maybe. I think the closest to a consensus when it comes to mainstream pop artists is Alicia Keys at the piano because this is 100% part of her career, as her artistic name suggests. The rest are just entertainers. Maybe Avril is in the middle because she knows at least the minimum. I don't think Avril ever pretended to sell herself as an instrumentalist or was marketed as one (like Alicia Keys, for example). Avril actually focused more on being a songwriter, so that's what I expect from her, even though she's not delivering it in the proper way. She's fine or enough with the rest.
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lucasm
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Post by lucasm on May 22, 2024 16:41:33 GMT
Yesterday, I watch a video saying "the next Avril tour is starting in a few days", and do you know which song people were screaming and jumping to? Avril's most popular hits. Avril is right, release a GH album and tour, paving the way for AL8. Hell yes! We're so ready for the GH Tour. It's been 10 years since Avril gently started ourselves for the monumental moment (at least for more than 2 tours). The way for AL8 is paved for more than one decade!!! Okay, I got your irony haha We know 100% that: Avril changed the direction of AL8. She discarded the "love sux 2.0 pop-punk-land" tracks. One point. I've been following Green Day and Alanis Morissette lately. They are artists who inspired Avril. These artists have a SUPER legacy. Alanis introduces newer songs from her career in her live shows, but almost no one sings, now when singles come on it's crazy. Green Day likewise, people literally scream and JUMP the moment they play their hits. Normal people, not super-big fans like us. I understand Avril, she was wanting to live at THIS stage. She said that on podcast. Now I hope that GH tour "trip" brings a lot of inspiration for new AL8 compositions. And maybe meeting other producers, would that be possible?
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on May 22, 2024 16:48:43 GMT
She could also get big reaction from album tracks on LG too. If she played the entire album at a festival this summer it will be a headline.
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TamyXD
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Post by TamyXD on May 22, 2024 17:12:42 GMT
I 100% agree with everyone who said Avril's instrumental skills are good enough for a pop artist. But they're just not nearly as good as she makes them out to be, and that last part is what annoys me.
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TamyXD
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Post by TamyXD on May 22, 2024 17:34:18 GMT
Well.. even though i think your opinions guys ^ are a little harsh, something is right here. I used to have guitar lessons, and the very first song i wanted to learn was MHE. I remember the teacher doing some listening and knowing the chords by hear. He listened to a few Avril songs here and there.. then went "Pretty much all of her songs have very easy/basic strumming patterns. Not much of a challenge honestly." And it was like, back in 2007-2008 ? So, yeah. This (sadly) says it all. But it makes me wonder then.. how much can she really play guitar ? How far can she get with this instrument ? Y'all know i'm french canadian, but you get where i'm going.. I've always seen Avril like such a hard worker, dedicated person about her music. Like, she gave her all. But sometimes you guys make me see things from a very different perspective. Or maybe it's because i'm all grown up now haha! Joke aside, this is true, as much as i hate to admit it. She doesn't really seem to make effort anymore, or, from a general public eye it may appear so. But the fanbase, and long time fans knows otherwise ... huh.. it really sucks. I wonder why she just.. takes it easy? Sometimes i feel like she's bored or i don't know. She gave a really good show when i saw her live, but then, again, no really big surprises. If not, at all. Singles. Lol, I could write the exact same thing, except I never took guitar lessons. But I also used to think she was so amazing at playing guitar (and piano, and drums), and her songs were so intricate, and she was the most hard-working, dedicated artist out there. But I also grew up, started listening to other artists, and finally saw how much more effort these other artists would put into their work.
I'm still sure Avril did work really hard during the first decade of her career, but I feel like around the AL era, she started chilling out a lot more, focusing more on having fun than actually working hard. And there's generally nothing wrong with that, I do want her to be happy, after all. But it just kinda sucks that we fans can tell by the decrease in quantity and quality of the work (albums, tours, interviews, communication, etc.) she's been presenting since then. (This decrease in quantity and quality is obviously not all on her, and this is all quite subjective anyway.)
Btw, I think her guitar skills are fine, as I mentioned before. She can play all the standard chords, including barre chords, which are not that easy to learn imo. She can do basic strumming patterns (upstroke, downstroke). She can mute strings (this is super easy, though). But I don't think I've ever seen her pick individual strings. And I've definitely never seen her use any technique like vibrato or bending or hammer-on/pull-off, even though those are pretty standard and easy imo. Though maybe she can do it but it just doesn't fit her musical style, idk.
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lucasm
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Post by lucasm on May 22, 2024 17:57:19 GMT
I 100% agree with everyone who said Avril's instrumental skills are good enough for a pop artist. But they're just not nearly as good as she makes them out to be, and that last part is what annoys me.
I laughed a lot when I read it (Avril on drums π₯)
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on May 22, 2024 18:43:20 GMT
It frankly doesnβt surprise me she stopped putting in as much effort with those kinds of things. She worked really hard to establish herself the first few albums and I think now that she feels sheβs cemented her legacy, there isnβt a need to work her ass off anymore. She might not have the energy or mental capacity for it, and she makes bank just playing the old hits and just her name alone, the nostalgia it generates, is enough to pull an audience still. Think how much she probably gets paid to do an hour setlist for a mainstream festival, which is way less work for her than organizing her own tour. The Call Her Daddy podcast is another example, itβs a really specific thing she can choose to be on thatβs more palatable to her than a traditional interview, and even though she doesnβt get paid to be on it and she didnβt get asked any super interesting questions, Iβve no doubt that episode probably drew a big audience just based on her name.
Sheβs at a point in her career where she has the luxury to be able to pick and choose what she does or doesnβt want to do. Sheβs set for life, financially. She can make more money by leaning into the nostalgia bit than new music, frankly. I donβt really blame her for resting on her laurels when itβs easier and a bigger money maker than trying new stuff. That being said, you could argue that Taylor is in that position as well, even more than Avril, yet Taylor keeps pushing herself creatively and incorporates new songs into her shows as much as the hits. But I suppose that kind of thing is important to Taylor and sheβs the exception, not the rule. Sheβs always had a hard work ethic more than most and never wanted to reach a creative peak. But I think Avril feels because she worked hard when she was young sheβs βearnedβ the right to just have fun now and do as she pleases.
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TamyXD
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Post by TamyXD on May 22, 2024 18:53:51 GMT
Idk, I feel like a lot of already established artists and bands besides just Taylor keep pushing themselves and try and give back to fans more than Avril does. So, I don't think it's Taylor who's the exception, but rather Avril is. (I might be wrong, though; I don't follow that many artists/bands super closely.)
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on May 22, 2024 18:59:07 GMT
Hmm I don't know, maybe she has just accepted she has better success as a nostalgia act. The GL and HAW albums kind of tanked, commercially, which wasn't entirely her fault or that the music wasn't good enough, but I can see how whenever she tried to be anything but the MFP the public didn't really care, but for example HTNGU performed pretty well as did the LS album as a whole. Maybe she's just given up trying new things since the public never seems to respond to it and instead they react way more favorably to her usual pop/rock material or the MFP image.
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giveuwhatulike
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Post by giveuwhatulike on May 22, 2024 19:48:57 GMT
And it's not just the public, the critics are the same. Wherever she tries something different, they say she loses her personality to fit in. She should stick to her own thing but mix with other genres here and there and be more diverse in songwriting topics, and that's it. I honestly have no idea what to expect for this album anymore, maybe not even Avril knows what she wants to do next. Like, if the album was coming right now, I'm pretty sure it would've been just like self-titled, dare I say, the "worst" part of the album to be exact (the summer songs).
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 22, 2024 20:00:30 GMT
I think this is part of work life in general, not only for artists. Maybe we push artists to be more creative and hardworking, but I think in other areas, people reach a point where they don't feel the need to reinvent themselves all the time. For example, I'm around 10 years into my career and I feel like I can still contribute a lot to what I do. At the same time, I've reached a level of stability where I don't feel the need to bring a lot of work home or work during weekends like I did in the beginning because I had to prove myself to get contracts and build my reputation. Now, I have already paved my way and can focus on maintaining and enhancing the work I've established. I guess most people do the same.
It's actually the best decision for one's mental health.
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 22, 2024 20:05:58 GMT
And it's not just the public, the critics are the same. Wherever she tries something different, they say she loses her personality to fit in. She should stick to her own thing but mix with other genres here and there and be more diverse in songwriting topics, and that's it. I honestly have no idea what to expect for this album anymore, maybe not even Avril knows what she wants to do next. Like, if the album was coming right now, I'm pretty sure it would've been just like self-titled, dare I say, the "worst" part of the album to be exact (the summer songs). You are 100% right. I remember when Love Sux came out, some music critics like Fantano gave negative reviews for songs like Avalanche and Dare To Love Me, saying they were too adult-contemporary pop and that she had been making the same sound for 10 years. At the same time, they said Love Sux was too "old-Avril"... and during GL/AL/HAW eras, she was criticized for straying too far from her roots. However, some people praised Love Sux as a comeback, while others said it offered nothing new. If you look at the critics' reviews of Under My Skin, there were many negative ones, whereas The Best Damn Thing was more acclaimed, but at the same time people/critics also said that with TBDT, she lost her personality. It's really hard to understand what people want! Maybe they just want to criticize. Haha.
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erikvaze
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Post by erikvaze on May 22, 2024 22:59:51 GMT
And it's not just the public, the critics are the same. Wherever she tries something different, they say she loses her personality to fit in. She should stick to her own thing but mix with other genres here and there and be more diverse in songwriting topics, and that's it. I honestly have no idea what to expect for this album anymore, maybe not even Avril knows what she wants to do next. Like, if the album was coming right now, I'm pretty sure it would've been just like self-titled, dare I say, the "worst" part of the album to be exact (the summer songs). Itβs like a circle: she would try new sounds for the audience if audience wants it, but her audience is just fans cause she is nostalgia artist and normal ppl know only her old hits. I think itβs just a part of label and promo, if HAW was on a big label with a good promo they could make a good comeback like kesha did with βprayingβ for example. Nowadays itβs a bit easier if u have a good team you could promote anything, and sell. In Avril case she is more about money than creativity unfortunately. LS was fun for her but in result she just gave us 12-14 songs. Itβs complicated we all see she is tired and do minimum in her career and just ese money from nostalgia, thatβs sad cause she can do better with her voice, vocal range and etc: country Edm and she could be more interesting to young generation if she tried more indie, alternative, had a better promo and etc. we can discuss it all for hours but I just try to be happy with what we have. At least if she is about nostalgia, give us FULL nostalgia with editions, set lists with our fave songs, new merch, pics, and etc. yes we are ready to go to βUMSβ tour and every album tour as nostalgia. Just donβt wanna Avril to lose potential, she is young talented and beautiful. Anyway she really experimented a lot with sounds, but I just wish it was all released officially. She tried different things and she has her own style itβs great!
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erikvaze
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Post by erikvaze on May 22, 2024 23:02:44 GMT
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blackmage
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Post by blackmage on May 22, 2024 23:06:58 GMT
If Love Sux had more than 12 songs, it would likely receive more criticism. I believe that for an album, 12 tracks are sufficient in terms of critical reception. Of course, for fans, the more, the better. However, if she, her team, or her fans are aiming for critical acclaim, I think she made the right move. Then, she released three more in the deluxe edition.
I don't think it was a bad decision. In terms of her career, I think she did it right, but of course I'd like to have more songs and more options to listen.
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