BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 15, 2021 17:18:47 GMT
Wow, some of you guys are as sensitive as these "new wave femimists" you apparently all dislike. Just because someone criticises Avrils lyrics. With other songs you always praise how it is open for interpretation but if someone interpreted the lyrics of Sk8er Boi in a different way than you, you get all mad. Apparently Avril said yes to this cover song, so she surely wasnt offended by it. No need for you all to defend her lyrics or talk trash about that singer and feminism in general. Makes you look bad tbh. On topic: Do we have any confirmation about Avril working with Travis Barker? Because he worked with Modsun and maybe she was just there? Like did you like any comment on Insta about a collaboration or why are we so sure it's happening? Lmao ok if me saying tearing down a man for no reason and calling that “female empowerment” and claiming the original lyrics are problematic when they really weren’t at all makes me “look bad,” then I’m proud to look awful as hell. There is literally no other interpretation to the original lyrics, it is pretty clear what the song is about and there’s nothing problematic. It would be problematic if Avril was saying the girl is lame for simply not liking the guy, or if the guy was described as blatantly being some kind of jerk, but that’s not the case. The girl is clearly described as liking the guy back but rejects him anyway because she’s worried about what others will think. The new lyrics promote what exactly? She doesn’t want to date him so the guy must be a loser with his hand down his pants because he can’t get a date? Yeah, great message. IMO you can do female empowerment songs without putting someone else down who wasn’t even the problem in the first place. That’s what real feminism is, this just promotes misandry. We don’t know exactly what Avril heard. She might have only been shown a demo or just been told it was a cover, maybe only sampling the song, or was told it was a reworking but wasn’t given specifics on lyrics.
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slapstick
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Post by slapstick on Jan 15, 2021 17:58:25 GMT
Regarding "L8r boi"....ahmm...ew (?) .__. Like...ok, i get the whole independient woman theme which is ok i guess, but it's basically has nothing to do with the original song. and obviously it doesn't have to BUT it seems like it somehow she twisted it's messsage in a very unpleasant way....maybe that's because i am fan idk...but i didn't like it at all. The instrumental is pretty cheap...or at least, not MY taste. idk. The song is pretty gross as well...like seriously, hearing sk8r boi chorus with "Five years from now in a beautiful home. Somebody else is makin' her moan. Skater boy is alone, with his hand on his balls".....it just made SO uncomfortable....BUT idk... i guess everyone has a taste and that's ok...but i personally hated it sorry :// I really hope she doesn't appear in the music video for a song like that.., but that's just MY opinion... Agree. What a bastardization of an iconic song. I was never a mega fan of Sk8er Boi, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not my absolute favorite from her, but Avril's version is miles better than whatever this disgusting trash is. Can't believe she signed off on it. And I hope she will have nothing to do with the video or promoting it on her own social channels. The instrumental sucks too. My ears have been assaulted. And yeah the whole narrative is stupid. Unfortunately this is what new wave feminism is - tearing men down for no explicable reason and calling it "female empowerment." There's nothing in the original song that indicates anything about the guy being problematic in any way. It was about 2 kids who loved each other but came from different worlds and the girl felt she couldn't be with him because of what her friends would say. She was too shallow and cared more about what her lame friends thought than be with the person she loved. If anyone's problematic in the song, eh, it's her? Fuck this cover lmao I think many should step back and look at such works from the perspective of what they try to indirectly inwoke. I'm sure all of us were very much surprised over the vulgarity and explicit lyrics, but I think this serves a different purpose here, it could maybe be the double standard that comes in expectations of what women artists and men artists are expected to produce. I'm sure a lot of us here know about the controversy around Cardi B's WAP song, but why was it so controversial, when hip-hop had artists like notorious B.I.G. producing even more explicit songs literally decades earlier? Even if this L8er boi song doesn't necessarily bring anything new to the table, it does allow to open a conversation to the fact that culturally we do expect "girls to be nice", while boys can "just be boys" with their vulgarities and aggression. Furthermore, the L8er boi lyrics intentionally upend the sk8er boi's traditional "happily ever after, together with prince charming" narrative, and flips it into an outcome that does not fit traditional expectations of a positive outcome, again making a surprise for the listener, even if most do find the ending undesirable. The point of the entire story is to exaggeratedly dismantle your expectations, and present you an outcome that some might actually find ideal, but maybe not you and I. Ultimately people should be more relaxed toward activism, as exaggeration/provocation is pretty standard modus operandi for gaining attention of a wider audience. Like, pride parades came into existence because LGBT folks need(ed) to double down on their public presence in order to gain their rights, and for example you have all sorts of legitimate protesters seeking bodily autonomy rights with public demonstrations that can get quite "explicit" for our societal standards. I won't defend every single messaging right off the bat, but art and political activism often go hand-in-hand, and exploring new territories is something that will always happen, and it will always make some people upset - sometimes justifiably, sometimes not. Anyway, this is very off-topic, so sorry mods
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MyHappySk8er
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Post by MyHappySk8er on Jan 15, 2021 18:05:06 GMT
Wow, some of you guys are as sensitive as these "new wave femimists" you apparently all dislike. Just because someone criticises Avrils lyrics. With other songs you always praise how it is open for interpretation but if someone interpreted the lyrics of Sk8er Boi in a different way than you, you get all mad. Apparently Avril said yes to this cover song, so she surely wasnt offended by it. No need for you all to defend her lyrics or talk trash about that singer and feminism in general. Makes you look bad tbh. Lmao ok if me saying tearing down a man for no reason and calling that “female empowerment” and claiming the original lyrics are problematic when they really weren’t at all makes me “look bad,” then I’m proud to look awful as hell. There is literally no other interpretation to the original lyrics, it is pretty clear what the song is about and there’s nothing problematic. It would be problematic if Avril was saying the girl is lame for simply not liking the guy, or if the guy was described as blatantly being some kind of jerk, but that’s not the case. The girl is clearly described as liking the guy back but rejects him anyway because she’s worried about what others will think. The new lyrics promote what exactly? She doesn’t want to date him so the guy must be a loser with his hand down his pants because he can’t get a date? Yeah, great message. IMO you can do female empowerment songs without putting someone else down who wasn’t even the problem in the first place. That’s what real feminism is, this just promotes misandry. We don’t know exactly what Avril heard. She might have only been shown a demo or just been told it was a cover, maybe only sampling the song, or was told it was a reworking but wasn’t given specifics on lyrics. I always thought that the lyrics were pretty blunt and clear about your interpretation, but from what I gather online, it seems that as some of the listeners got older, they started to think a little deeper about the song and probably came at it from the "unreliable narrator" angle. To play Devil's Advocate, what I'm getting is that they started to draw implications and context from the song that Avril just didn't have in mind when she wrote it. They probably think she's lying or being delusional when she says, "secretly she wanted him as well" and "He was a punk. She did ballet. What more can I say?" Just because she wanted him, does it mean they're compatible? One is a punk and the other does ballet. Would you approve of your kid or your friend who is a classic girly-girl getting it on with a "punk?" You'd probably think it wouldn't work out either and disapprove of such a relationship for good reason. This "punk" is more likely to cause her legal and emotional troubles compared to a "normal" guy. Believe it or not, there are probably relationships you just wouldn't approve of. Them wanting each other doesn't mean they're compatible or that the relationship is "right." I could try to go deeper and flesh out this interpretation, but that's the gist of it. About Avril "approving" of this new "L8er Boi" song: Her "approving" of this song doesn't necessarily mean that she likes it. Even if(and that's assuming the artist didn't tell her that she thought the lyrics were problematic) she heard the reasoning for this artist's parody, I would still "approve" just to be on the safe side. Imagine if she didn't "approve" and then word of it gets out? "OMG are you supporting sexism?" The unfortunate reality is that people just love to toss in fallacies, emotions, and unfair arguments while throwing any sound reasoning out the window and getting other people to jump on their bandwagon. I should know. I hang around on the Internet a lot and people pull that bullshit all the time. I would definitely "approve" if I were in her shoes. There's a lot of terrible reasonings/arguments out there that you just have to go with or you'll have an angry mob after you.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 15, 2021 18:09:58 GMT
Agree. What a bastardization of an iconic song. I was never a mega fan of Sk8er Boi, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not my absolute favorite from her, but Avril's version is miles better than whatever this disgusting trash is. Can't believe she signed off on it. And I hope she will have nothing to do with the video or promoting it on her own social channels. The instrumental sucks too. My ears have been assaulted. And yeah the whole narrative is stupid. Unfortunately this is what new wave feminism is - tearing men down for no explicable reason and calling it "female empowerment." There's nothing in the original song that indicates anything about the guy being problematic in any way. It was about 2 kids who loved each other but came from different worlds and the girl felt she couldn't be with him because of what her friends would say. She was too shallow and cared more about what her lame friends thought than be with the person she loved. If anyone's problematic in the song, eh, it's her? Fuck this cover lmao I think many should step back and look at such works from the perspective of what they try to indirectly inwoke. I'm sure all of us were very much surprised over the vulgarity and explicit lyrics, but I think this serves a different purpose here, it could maybe be the double standard that comes in expectations of what women artists and men artists are expected to produce. I'm sure a lot of us here know about the controversy around Cardi B's WAP song, but why was it so controversial, when hip-hop had artists like notorious B.I.G. producing even more explicit songs literally decades earlier? Even if this L8er boi song doesn't necessarily bring anything new to the table, it does allow to open a conversation to the fact that culturally we do expect "girls to be nice", while boys can "just be boys" with their vulgarities and aggression. Furthermore, the L8er boi lyrics intentionally upend the sk8er boi's traditional "happily ever after, together with prince charming" narrative, and flips it into an outcome that does not fit traditional expectations of a positive outcome, again making a surprise for the listener, even if most do find the ending undesirable. The point of the entire story is to exaggeratedly dismantle your expectations, and present you an outcome that some might actually find ideal, but maybe not you and I. Ultimately people should be more relaxed toward activism, as exaggeration/provocation is pretty standard modus operandi for gaining attention of a wider audience. Like, pride parades came into existence because LGBT folks need(ed) to double down on their public presence in order to gain their rights, and for example you have all sorts of legitimate protesters seeking bodily autonomy rights with public demonstrations that can get quite "explicit" for our societal standards. I won't defend every single messaging right off the bat, but art and political activism often go hand-in-hand, and exploring new territories is something that will always happen, and it will always make some people upset - sometimes justifiably, sometimes not. Anyway, this is very off-topic, so sorry mods Thank you for explaining your opinion and view of the song in a respectful way. I definitely agree there is sometimes this double standard in society and music of what women are allowed to say versus men and I agree this could be a commentary of that. While I don’t like the lyrics, that’s not really my main issue with the song. In general I just think it’s a bad cover, even just from a musical standpoint, and IMO does a disservice to the original, which is an iconic and very much beloved song from Avril. It was an interesting thought to reimagine it and modernize it, but I just think it failed massively in its execution. Others are free to like it. We’re also free to dislike it. For what it’s worth, it doesn’t seem to be charting on the US iTunes chart, even though the album is. I’d be interested in knowing how non-Avril fans like it. I’ll move these posts off once I’m able to get to a computer and make a new thread.
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tommygun
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Post by tommygun on Jan 15, 2021 18:10:53 GMT
For me it’s not the explicit lyrics or the idea that a woman could not release a song about sex at all. I listen to Brooke Candy and she is pure filth lol. But it’s just it seems very unnecessary to me in the L8er Boi song. I just think it’s a shit song to be honest and I was waiting for it to end by the time I was half way through it.
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Ino
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Post by Ino on Jan 15, 2021 18:14:51 GMT
OMG that trash cover of Sk8er Boi. I hate zoomers so much.
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Ino
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Post by Ino on Jan 15, 2021 18:28:56 GMT
I don't care for the L8er Boi song, and I definitely don't care for the meaning she tried to inject into it. First of all, her claims about the original Sk8er Boi are just... false? She's saying in the original song Avril's message was "FUCK THIS GIRL, FUCK BALLET", and that's just not true. The only thing she actually does say is that the girl didn't see the guy for the person he was and let herself be too influenced by her friends' opinions of him, and thus ended up losing him for someone who actually valued him beyond his looks and genuinely wanted to be with him. I can't find anything problematic about that message at all -- it's a rather nice and realistic message, imo, something that actually happens to a lot of people. She probably just read a tumblr post about Sk8er Boi and ran with it lol.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Jan 15, 2021 19:27:34 GMT
Wow, some of you guys are as sensitive as these "new wave femimists" you apparently all dislike. Just because someone criticises Avrils lyrics. With other songs you always praise how it is open for interpretation but if someone interpreted the lyrics of Sk8er Boi in a different way than you, you get all mad. Apparently Avril said yes to this cover song, so she surely wasnt offended by it. No need for you all to defend her lyrics or talk trash about that singer and feminism in general. Makes you look bad tbh. On topic: Do we have any confirmation about Avril working with Travis Barker? Because he worked with Modsun and maybe she was just there? Like did you like any comment on Insta about a collaboration or why are we so sure it's happening? Lmao ok if me saying tearing down a man for no reason and calling that “female empowerment” and claiming the original lyrics are problematic when they really weren’t at all makes me “look bad,” then I’m proud to look awful as hell. There is literally no other interpretation to the original lyrics, it is pretty clear what the song is about and there’s nothing problematic. It would be problematic if Avril was saying the girl is lame for simply not liking the guy, or if the guy was described as blatantly being some kind of jerk, but that’s not the case. The girl is clearly described as liking the guy back but rejects him anyway because she’s worried about what others will think. The new lyrics promote what exactly? She doesn’t want to date him so the guy must be a loser with his hand down his pants because he can’t get a date? Yeah, great message. IMO you can do female empowerment songs without putting someone else down who wasn’t even the problem in the first place. That’s what real feminism is, this just promotes misandry. We don’t know exactly what Avril heard. She might have only been shown a demo or just been told it was a cover, maybe only sampling the song, or was told it was a reworking but wasn’t given specifics on lyrics.
To be honest, you just proved my point. To you and many others the message of Sk8er Boi seems to be clear. But there are discussions online about another meaning and intention of this song and now there is even a cover or alternative-reality-version of this song, which means there is in fact more than one possibility to interprete that song. No matter how clear and obvious is it to you. You might not see it that way, and most Avril fans and non-fans might agree - but it doesn't make any sense to say that there is no other interpretation - because as you can see, there is and now we even have a song that kind of describes that.
And I get that people (=Avril fans) react emotional if someone dares to change her version of the song - but I have to say I'm surprised HOW emotional some of you got here. And IMO that has something to do with 1) idolizing Avril (which is something that all fans do to an extent) + 2) being overly defensive when it comes to feminism and whatever picture people have of online activism. I could be wrong, but that's my guess, cause I have seen it many times.
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ame · 雨
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Post by ame · 雨 on Jan 15, 2021 19:36:51 GMT
What you guys don't understand is that nobody here really care about what that cover song is about. She could literally talk about how she killed her mom and I wouldn't care. But she CHOSE sk8er boi to CHANGE it because....wait for it...it was "pRoBLemAtiC".
Jesus...there is absolutely nothing wrong with sk8er boi lyrics and people that find those lyrics offensive should really think about their lives to be honest and i'm being as respectful as I can, trust me.
She could've made the same song without destryoing sk8er boi. She could've made the same song without trashing sk8er boi's lyrical content. This is not about activism or politics.
And to save you some time, it's both of them, 1 and 2. Not because something holds the feminism flag mean it's automatically "correct" sorry. And as I said, this is not about feminism, This is about a woke generation that craves for drama and need to feed their egos trying to solve "problematic" issues and they will find them. Don't exist? don't worry, we will create them. That's the issue here.
But again, if someone likes the song, you are free. I hate it and i think it's a disrespect to the song and the original artist. I'm just tired of people creating non-sens problems everytime.
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ame · 雨
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Post by ame · 雨 on Jan 15, 2021 19:48:07 GMT
And bu the way, I'm not denying there are some "problematic" issues that need to be adressed or to be changed BUT sk8er boi is not one of them. I don't know what this girl was thinking and how in the world she came to that conclusion BUT ok...
‘Love Avril, love everything about her, but the lyrics are a bit problematic!’ - how? just how? 🤦♂️
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 15, 2021 19:53:52 GMT
And bu the way, I'm not denying there are some "problematic" issues that need to be adressed or to be changed BUT sk8er boi is not one of them. I don't know what this girl was thinking and how in the world she came to that conclusion BUT ok... ‘Love Avril, love everything about her, but the lyrics are a bit problematic!’ - how? just how? 🤦♂️ Exactly, I think it’s kind of a disrespectful thing for her to ask to cover Avril’s song but then say the lyrics are problematic. She could just say she wants to modernize it or tell the story from a different perspective and leave it at that. It’s sort of a backhanded compliment to say you want to cover this legendary artist’s song but you at the same time find it a problematic song and you want to rewrite the lyrics.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Jan 15, 2021 20:06:12 GMT
Why do you think that you have a objective and absolute opinion (=wisdom) about the lyrics of Sk8er Boi ("there is just one meaning" / "there is nothing problematic about the lyrics") and other people are obviously wrong? Like... let people have their own opinion and interpretation. You are not objective, this singer is not objective, Avril is not objective - none is. There are issues where many people tend to have a similar opinion about (like that SB doesnt have problematic lyrics) and there are issues where it's more unclear what's the popular opinion (like is I dont have to try a good song) and issues where it's shifting. I dont get that hate and harsh words for an opinion that is not even relevant in any way. She said she loved Avril but finds the lyrics of SB problematic - so what? What is bothering you so much? My guess: It's because you get annoyed whenever someone uses words like "problematic" or "misogynist" or "toxic". Yes some discussions are pretty irrelevant and this song might be one of them, but it's not hurting anyone. So where do all these strong reactions and emotions come from? I find it very irritating.
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giveuwhatulike
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Post by giveuwhatulike on Jan 15, 2021 20:12:24 GMT
I agree i dont really see sk8er boi as problematic. It's a "dont judge the book by it's cover" type of song. The message is positive and timeless. Avril problematic songs are probably on the best damn thing since some of them have a lot of slut shaming in it
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ame · 雨
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Post by ame · 雨 on Jan 15, 2021 20:15:56 GMT
My problem is not what some random people think about the lyrics of SB, they can do and think whatever they want. It's way different when you take actions and destroy a song. She is literally pushing the narrative that SB is problematic, therefore creating a problem where there isn't.
You could say the same thing about Mellisa Vandella then?..."it's my opinion, this is what i think and this is how i interpretate things". These people have been pushing this narrative for years now even tho it's not true. And it stopped being funny.
A "problematic lyrics" case is what i don't want for Avril now and never. Especially when OBJECTIVELY there is not a problem.
by the way, the definition: in an objective rather than subjective or biased way : with a basis in observable facts rather than feelings or opinions. Can you observe something problematic without twisting it's meaning? NO. It's all based on feelings and emotion and her own perception of the world. Sorry.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Jan 15, 2021 20:17:03 GMT
Why do you think that you have a objective and absolute opinion (=wisdom) about the lyrics of Sk8er Boi ("there is just one meaning" / "there is nothing problematic about the lyrics") and other people are obviously wrong? Like... let people have their own opinion and interpretation. You are not objective, this singer is not objective, Avril is not objective - none is. There are issues where many people tend to have a similar opinion about (like that SB doesnt have problematic lyrics) and there are issues where it's more unclear what's the popular opinion (like is I dont have to try a good song) and issues where it's shifting. I dont get that hate and harsh words for an opinion that is not even relevant in any way. She said she loved Avril but finds the lyrics of SB problematic - so what? What is bothering you so much? My guess: It's because you get annoyed whenever someone uses words like "problematic" or "misogynist" or "toxic". Yes some discussions are pretty irrelevant and this song might be one of them, but it's not hurting anyone. So where do all these strong reactions and emotions come from? I find it very irritating. You are the only one I see here who is getting really offended over everything and being "bothered." Why are you getting so defensive over some artist that, let's be honest, I'm sure none of us heard of until we heard she was doing this song. This is an Avril fansite, obviously there's going to be some strong opinions about someone doing a very drastically different version of one of her most known and loved songs. We aren't obligated to like it? It's totally valid that some are going to have different interpretations of the song, even though to most it is pretty clear cut what it's about. And out of all the songs Avril's done, I'd say she's got worse songs than this if we want to talk about "problematic" lyrics. People can analyze her lyrics to death if they want. I find reading these theories interesting, even if I end up not agreeing. But I think in this case, it's a stretch to try to say it's got some other meaning to it. And by this logic, you could probably find any issue with any lyrics of any song if you look hard enough for one. Also, I just think it is disrespectful of this artist to ask permission to cover Avril's song while basically insulting it in the same breath. Avril could have decided to say no and then we never would have had to hear her shitty version of it.
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