Jinkxx
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Post by Jinkxx on Oct 28, 2023 16:03:00 GMT
I once read that John Feldman is pushing the people he works with to get that emotion out of someone so that it really means something. I think he can push her but we know that people are working with him put out mostly pop punk music.
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Oct 28, 2023 17:15:32 GMT
I once read that John Feldman is pushing the people he works with to get that emotion out of someone so that it really means something. I think he can push her but we know that people are working with him put out mostly pop punk music. He did bring out her anger on LS (even though he went overboard with the vocal production in some songs)! I also think LS has great instrumentals which I'm sure is Feldmans work. But she needs someone to 1) push her to write better lyrics or 2) open up and be more personal in her lyrics. |
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 28, 2023 17:48:13 GMT
I don’t really agree with the she doesn’t have to prove herself/doesn’t have to be making music logic.
It’s correct - she doesn’t have to be making music, she’s financially set up for life. But she is, and because she is surely as an artist she WANTS to produce her best work? As long as she’s still making music her own artistic integrity should mean she wants to always be bettering herself and making the best art she can. I work with some very well off people who absolutely don’t need to work anymore because they’re at the very top of their (lucrative) careers - but they are still working so they’re producing the best work they can, you don’t just start half arsing it because you don’t have to be doing it.
She can have a fun album, she can have one with less serious lyrics, but the problem is she’s not improving other aspects alongside it. She says Love Sux was made to play live - it’s not my favourite album but I agree, it is made to play live - so why didn’t she play it? Why have her performances got worse with time and not better? Whys she got worse at connecting with her fans? Why did she used to play a variety of instruments on stage now she barely strums a guitar? I can’t think of a single thing that has actually improved since the GL era.
If her lyrics had been improving and she’d shown growth since her first 3 albums then sure, she can have LS as her fun, not serious, can’t be arsed to write about much other than vomit album. But she hasn’t.
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 28, 2023 17:50:03 GMT
I think you guys are forgetting about the fact she said when writing LS she never intended for it to be a well written, poetic sounding record. That was sort of the point. It was always meant to be lighthearted and her just pouring out her feelings about breakups, pretty much saying whatever first came to mind for her. I don’t think it’s a big deal that she wants to have fun with her friends in the studio. I’d rather she work with people she gets on with than some forced session with a pro she doesn’t really see eye to eye with. That won’t produce her best work either. But I think it’s a delicate balance of working with people who she gets on with that are also good writers (Lauren Christy as an example). At this point she doesn’t have to make music anymore. She doesn’t have to prove herself. She doesn’t really “have” to do anything. She’s doing it because she simply wants to at this point and loves writing and recording, making things she’s passionate about. I can’t say I blame her at all for wanting to bring all her friends to the studio and just have a good time. I think she can write deep lyrics when she wants to. LS wasn’t that record because it wasn’t meant to be that record. I don't need her to be waxing poetic, but things like this: I would tell you that I'm pissed But I know you won't hear me (hear me)/ You should read my fucking lips 'Cause you don't seem to hear me (hear me)Are absolute garbage. Not using basically the same line in two different verses should be the bare minimum. The entire album feels like first draft lyrics that were never improved upon. I don't disagree but that's exactly what I said - that she wrote what she felt, the first thing that came to her mind, and most of what made the album was likely first draft lyrics. Whether or not we think that was a good idea is sort of irrelevant to the point - it's what she purposely chose to do. Basically her goal was to make an angry but lighthearted pop punk album about how much love sux and she did just that. Every album has its share of good lyrics as well as crappy lyrics. Fans praise UMS as her best album when it has some of her weakest writing. Tbh I think fans have always been kind of biased when it comes to what they think are good or bad lyrics. Bratty/fun = bad, deep = good. There's plenty of examples of bad writing on LS, there's also good examples as people pointed out like Break of a Heartache. At the end of the day, it's about Avril's intent. She thought GL was an example of her trying to be a deep songwriter and it was still pretty weak and bland writing. It's one thing if she actually tries to write deep lyrics and they're still not good. But LS was never intended to be some well crafted lyrical masterpiece. We can think the writing is bad all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that was never her intention with it to begin with. We can obviously hope for AL8 she will become more creative with lyrics, but once again, that all comes down to what her intention is and if she wants to actually strive for that or not. |
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 28, 2023 18:03:15 GMT
I don’t really agree with the she doesn’t have to prove herself/doesn’t have to be making music logic. It’s correct - she doesn’t have to be making music, she’s financially set up for life. But she is, and because she is surely as an artist she WANTS to produce her best work? As long as she’s still making music her own artistic integrity should mean she wants to always be bettering herself and making the best art she can. I work with some very well off people who absolutely don’t need to work anymore because they’re at the very top of their (lucrative) careers - but they are still working so they’re producing the best work they can, you don’t just start half arsing it because you don’t have to be doing it. She can have a fun album, she can have one with less serious lyrics, but the problem is she’s not improving other aspects alongside it. She says Love Sux was made to play live - it’s not my favourite album but I agree, it is made to play live - so why didn’t she play it? Why have her performances got worse with time and not better? Whys she got worse at connecting with her fans? Why did she used to play a variety of instruments on stage now she barely strums a guitar? I can’t think of a single thing that has actually improved since the GL era. If her lyrics had been improving and she’d shown growth since her first 3 albums then sure, she can have LS as her fun, not serious, can’t be arsed to write about much other than vomit album. But she hasn’t. I get what you're saying but I meant it more like that's probably Avril's own perspective on it. Most artists want to evolve with each album and keep putting out quality work, no matter how famous or successful they might be already, but that doesn't meant she sees it that way. I don't think she cares about impressing critics with her writing abilities or always trying to outdo or outsell what she did before. She always just wants to make music that reflects where she's at in life and that she feels proud of. Her vision of what is worthy of feeling proud of is probably going to differ a lot from ours, and even from fan to fan. It is all subjective. Basically, she's been at this for 20 years and has already had her hits and big selling records, her days of selling out arenas. I think now she just wants to have fun with what she does and she doesn't feel the need to continue chasing charts and what not. As for why her live performances have declined, who knows, but for as long as fans keep going to her shows, she's not going to realize she needs to change anything. Basically she's at a point in her career where she can get by doing the bare minimum with anything because of who she is. Brands will pay her loads of money to show up and do a quick set or sponsor some product, why put more effort into something if she can basically make the same or more money doing less? I'm not saying it's the correct attitude to have, but it might be how she views it. Like I said, until fans stop going to her shows, that's the only way she'll see she needs to change something. What she's doing still sells tickets so she assumes fans are fine with it. |
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Oct 28, 2023 18:14:37 GMT
Re everything Katy said!
I mean do what you want Avril but there's a good portion of fans who are disappointed. And I don't think that's coming from a bad place so please don't tell me to go find someone else to listen to. Because I think fans can desire something better. And I'd like to add that working with friends can be the best or it can be the worst. One you feel comfortable but sometimes you can feel too comfortable. Maybe she needs someone to challenge her and it seemed like Feldmann was going to be that man. I've also heard he pushes people and Avril said when she announced she was done recording that Feldman really kicked her ass. I think you can see it in the energy of LS. I just wish the lyrics didn't give the energy of a preteen girl. I def think no one in that studio said let's do a read thru of these lyrics instead of giving us a first draft like an amateur.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2023 18:25:11 GMT
Re everything Katy said! I mean do what you want Avril but there's a good portion of fans who are disappointed. And I don't think that's coming from a bad place so please don't tell me to go find someone else to listen to. Because I think fans can desire something better. And I'd like to add that working with friends can be the best or it can be the worst. One you feel comfortable but sometimes you can feel too comfortable. Maybe she needs someone to challenge her and it seemed like Feldmann was going to be that man. I've also heard he pushes people and Avril said when she announced she was done recording that Feldman really kicked her ass. I think you can see it in the energy of LS. I just wish the lyrics didn't give the energy of a preteen girl. I def think no one in that studio said let's do a read thru of these lyrics instead of giving us a first draft like an amateur. About the lyrics you gotta also think, Mod helped write half of the album. His lyrics on his own songs, are very very similar I mean it took 7 people to help write “we went from Strangers to Lovers to Strangers again.” And his lyrics are super repetitive I’ve noticed while listening to his songs. |
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biggerwow
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Post by biggerwow on Oct 28, 2023 18:41:02 GMT
Re everything Katy said! I mean do what you want Avril but there's a good portion of fans who are disappointed. And I don't think that's coming from a bad place so please don't tell me to go find someone else to listen to. Because I think fans can desire something better. And I'd like to add that working with friends can be the best or it can be the worst. One you feel comfortable but sometimes you can feel too comfortable. Maybe she needs someone to challenge her and it seemed like Feldmann was going to be that man. I've also heard he pushes people and Avril said when she announced she was done recording that Feldman really kicked her ass. I think you can see it in the energy of LS. I just wish the lyrics didn't give the energy of a preteen girl. I def think no one in that studio said let's do a read thru of these lyrics instead of giving us a first draft like an amateur. About the lyrics you gotta also think, Mod helped write half of the album. His lyrics on his own songs, are very very similar I mean it took 7 people to help write “we went from Strangers to Lovers to Strangers again.” And his lyrics are super repetitive I’ve noticed while listening to his songs. nah, all this has been going for a very long time. If there was one thing about them was that they were really fit in the music department. I can hear him in LS and in particular the leaked LS tracks but overall it had Avril's attitude all over it too. And Karma is a bop ngl lol. Also, I think we get hung up on songs that have multiple writers but sometimes people have minimal input and get added as a songwriter like Avril on Breakaway (allegedly). And even just being in the room gets you added sometimes. |
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 28, 2023 18:49:07 GMT
And also Mod is irrelevant to it all. I know this forum likes to blame him for *everything* but Avril chooses who she writes with. Avril has the final say on the lyrics. The lyrics are what they are because that’s what she was happy with (god knows why), no other reason.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2023 19:00:09 GMT
Honestly idc much. I jusrt want a good song, Love Sux is good cuz its fun its upbeat i can scream it, Im sick of being negative. I love Avril cuz she does what she wants and makes it inclusive for everyone. I dont need Taylor Swift type lyrics 24/7. Hell even Taylor herself loved the album and had fun as a fan. You dont see her bashing Avril. And also alot of the GP today dont care about lyrics they just care about beat and shit. Have oyu heard 90% of the songs out today? Theyre so simple like worse lyrics then Avril. Way worse
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giveuwhatulike
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Post by giveuwhatulike on Oct 28, 2023 20:26:15 GMT
I'm just very curious to know who she's been working with because everything points out for more people involved on the album then she intended to at first.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2023 20:29:45 GMT
I'm just very curious to know who she's been working with because everything points out for more people involved on the album then she intended to at first. Same cuz it seems like rap? But we also haven’t seen her in the studio with anyone other then Travis Mills, John and that one songwriter I can’t remember who that waa |
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damncoldnights
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Post by damncoldnights on Oct 28, 2023 20:30:41 GMT
I'm just very curious to know who she's been working with because everything points out for more people involved on the album then she intended to at first. I think the content she's writing about took a very unintended turn and original plans/writers had to be altered 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2023 20:35:27 GMT
I'm just very curious to know who she's been working with because everything points out for more people involved on the album then she intended to at first. I think the content she's writing about took a very unintended turn and original plans/writers had to be altered 😂 I wanna know what she was writing about before.. February 🤣 like i wanna know what kin of songs she was writing and kinda poinpoint when things started falling apart |
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Oct 28, 2023 22:39:13 GMT
From the first post of this thread:
Avril has been working in the studio with John Feldmann and Travis Barker again, as well as new collaborators like Yungblud, Tommee Profitt, Andrew Goldstein, and Alex Gaskarth of All Time Low, plus Gayle and Travis Mills. There was also another songwriter she was working with, a Canadian female I think, but can’t recall her name. Simon Cox or something?
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