Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 5, 2017 18:13:06 GMT
This thread has been a long time coming. Well, technically a thread like this was made a while ago around the time the new forums were launched, but it was locked for random drama-related reasons. ...Anyway, I wanted to touch on one of the most important topics of our time: Hello Kitty from Avril Lavigne's self-titled album. One of the first questions I ask people who join our live BA Discord chat (which you should totally join if you haven't yet by the way) is what they think of the song. It's a controversial song among the fanbase which - anecdotally - many of the hardcore fans detest for reasons I'll get into later in the thread. For those who need a refresher on the song/music video: So what do I think of the song, you ask? For some reason, I've become the official champion of the song in our Discord chat (join it!) and the leader of the Hello Kitty Defense Force (HKDF - okay, this isn't actually a thing). I don't love the song by any means. I definitely enjoy listening to it though. With that being said, I agree with a lot of the elements the song's detractors dislike about it: 1. The lyrics are bad - I mean really bad. It's hard to just pick one bad line - pretty much all the lines border on cringe. I know the song is supposed to have a playful double meaning but it's not executed well. Beyond that, one specific line I don't like is near the beginning of the song where she says "Let's all slumber party like a fat kid on a pack of Smarties." I don't know why, but this just seems kind of mean on Avril's part. I'm probably just being overly sensitive though. I get that she was trying to have fun with the lyrics and go for a "wacky Japanese" vibe, but this leads to my second point. 2. The song initially comes across as a cynical trend chasing effort by Avril. It feels like she saw that Kesha, Nicki Minaj and dubstep were hot, and thus wanted to capitalize on their popularity. The problem is, these elements totally go against her overall vibe and a lot of people can't get past this. It almost feels like a last grasp for relevance by Avril. I'm not saying this was her actual thought process when creating the song - this was just my initial impression upon hearing the song/watching the music video for the first time. I legitimately felt bad for her. Keep in mind, this was before I really became a fan of her's, so I know better now. 3. The music video isn't as good as it could have been. Like I said earlier, she was definitely trying to go for the "wacky Japanese" vibe, but the video isn't all that wacky. It's a little off-kilter for sure, but the background dancers aren't very exciting and Avril isn't doing anything too crazy. Also, what's the deal with that random part in the middle where she waves to her Japanese fans in black and white video? It feels pretty cheesy and completely unrelated to the rest of the video. There's also very noticeable video syncing issues, which is pretty shameful for a mainstream production like this to have. Finally, there's the taint from the initial accusations of the video being racist. I'll briefly touch on this topic - I don't want to downplay the effects of cultural appropriation because it's an extremely pervasive issue around the world but I don't think the video falls under that category. It's awkward for sure - Avril really sounds like a basic white girl when trying to pronounce Japanese words in the video - but that's about it. 4. Okay, this isn't really related to the song quality but I wanted to throw this in anyway. I watched Avril's live performance of Hello Kitty: (ignore the crappy audio quality) and I was pretty disappointed. You would think that with a song this "zany," the performance would be over-the-top, fast, and fun. Instead she's just kind of...standing there the whole time. I know this was probably around the time when she was sick but...c'mon Avril! Yet, with all these (very reasonable) criticisms, I still find myself listening to this song from time to time and enjoying it. It's catchy, fun and one of Avril's few "fast" songs. It's a nice change of pace from her other music, and fun to blast. It also has one of the funniest lines in her entire discography (Let's roll around / have a pillow fight like a major rager OMFG). I still have no idea what that means by the way. A lot of people can't get past the lyrics of the song...for whatever reason the song is catchy enough for me to ignore them. I don't know, music is weird that way. Anyway, for those who have stuck through this overly long (and unnecessary) essay on a song many people don't even like, what do you think of the song? Does it betray your expectations of what an Avril Lavigne song should be, or are you a proud member of my defense force that will one day take over the world? Would love to hear everyone's thoughts. I'll leave you guys with this random gif:  Join the Discord chat! |
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sliperslip
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Post by sliperslip on Mar 5, 2017 19:22:19 GMT
people dislike this song because they all associate it with actual Hello Kitty and they think Avril is too old to sing about it or whatever, but the song is about pussy and lesbian experience, and it's kinda a fun. I don't dislike or hate the song and I don't think the song is that bad like everybody thinks it is. I'm not disappointed and i don't see video as racist, she just had fun with a song and a video, that's it  L.A. Reid said here is money go and make video for HK and she did it, sometimes we don't need to read so much into everything and make things so complicated |
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travis
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Post by travis on Mar 5, 2017 19:25:55 GMT
I personally think the song is somewhat cringy, but the song wasn't really meant for American and Euro audiences. From what I hear, the fans from Asia eat it up.
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Underclass King
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Post by Underclass King on Mar 5, 2017 19:41:37 GMT
I've always really liked Hello Kitty despite popular opinion. It's a fun and upbeat song with a colorful and entertaining video. It's not my favorite song from Avril, but it's definitely above some other songs on Avril Lavigne.
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sam
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Post by sam on Mar 5, 2017 20:06:05 GMT
The song is...catchy at times for me? I'm just drawn away from it generally because of the sheep like behaviour people exhibited when it came out. Let's just say I was logged into tumblr at the time  From a fan perspective when the video came out so many people were laughing at Avril - it was a really hard time being a fan back then to be honest  I'm glad people have finally moved on from it. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 5, 2017 20:15:43 GMT
Thankful that you guys are replying in this crazy thread  . It's my first thread so I wasn't sure how it'd go. With that being said, I'm interested in hearing more from people who don't like the song. All opinions welcome  |
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Sarah93
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Post by Sarah93 on Mar 5, 2017 20:27:47 GMT
TBH I really like it, and I don't find it racist at all! I think the video could've been better... but still I like it. I agree with sliperslip, when she says that people mostly dislike it because they associate it with the actual Hello Kitty, but even if it were, who cares? It's still better than those artists who just sing explicitly about sex and have outrageous music videos... I also think that the production could have been better, but still I appreciate her attempt of trying new styles |
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BogoGog24
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Post by BogoGog24 on Mar 5, 2017 21:53:19 GMT
I like the song but I don't love it and I don't hate it either. I think that a lot of her fans hate it because of the immature and meaningless lyrics, as well as the fact that it's an EDM song. Most of her fans prefer rock and mature lyrics. Personally it doesn't bother me that she sometimes likes to write fun songs with no real meaning or try out new styles, provided that it's good. I think in this case it was just meant to be a fun experiment and nothing more. I doubt she'll ever do another song like this again. The lyrics are dumb and insipid for sure, but I like the creativity and the humor. The "fat kid on a pack of Smarties" line I'm sure is just meant in jest. It would be a fun song to play at a slumber party and I wish they had kind of gone with that theme more for the music video. I agree with all your points about the music video being bad, however I still like the video for some reason. I like that it's bright and colorful and it's cool that she filmed it in Japan. I think people went overboard when they said she was being racist in it. There is some cultural appropriation/stereotyping, for sure, but it wasn't like she was being disrespectful to the culture or anything like that. Unfortunately this song and video tainted her image, but now that she is coming back with new, more meaningful music I think people are forgetting about it. I think if anything at least it shows she isn't afraid to take risks, no matter how much hate she might get for it, and that's one of the reasons why we all love her. So it's not a typical Avril song, but it's typical in the sense that it's quirky, it's unique, and it's unlike what anyone else is doing. I don't think she did it to hop on the dubstep bandwagon at all, but more that she just thought it would be fun and wanted to pay tribute to her Asian fans. I do like the song. I find it enjoyable to listen to when I'm in the mood. It's fun. It's catchy. However, I think as far as EDM songs go they could have found a far better producer for the song than Martin Johnson (though that can be said for pretty much any of the songs he did). Had they found a real EDM producer to do the song people might have liked it better. When she described the song before we heard it, I remember her saying it was "glitchy" and I had something totally different in mind as to what it ended up being, so that was kind of disappointing. I admit I was pretty shocked when I first heard a clip leak and I thought it was complete trash, that it was a joke, and like she could have done so much better. But I agree when you listen to it more and more, it grows on you. I haven't listened to it in ages, to be honest. But I don't dislike it at all. And I actually love the video, even though it's definitely bad. I agree the hand waving scene makes no sense. The editing is pretty weird, I guess it's supposed to be like the style of all those Japanese TV shows? The obvious lip synch fails are But you can tell she enjoyed making it and I like the bright colors. One last thing to add, I agree the live performances were awful. She didn't actually perform it at the show I attended, which I was curious to see. But yeah vocally the song doesn't do anything for her and her energy could have been better when performing it, but this was also when she was very sick, so we should probably cut her some slack on that. One thing that drives me crazy about the song though is the parts where her voice gets really high and squeaky like "SOMEONE chuck a cupcake at me" or "KEEEEP it just between you and me." I guess that's kind of the point, to make it sound more cute and "kawaii" but it's honestly annoying and hurts my ears. |
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Bootylicious Batch
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Post by Bootylicious Batch on Mar 5, 2017 23:15:30 GMT
First of all I just want to thank you Neil for creating this glorious thread. The more Hello Kitty discussion, the better for us all imo. 'Hello Kitty' is an extremely interesting song to say the least. It definitely stands out as one of (if not THE most) memorable songs of Avril's career. For me, there is a very beautiful aura around Avril's 'Hello Kitty' - between the song and the music video, there is almost a subtle poetic beauty that I think most people have failed to see. As I write this, I now absolutely adore the song & the music video. I have nothing but respect for the craftsmanship behind such brilliance. However, my journey with 'Hello Kitty' certainly did not begin with love... When the song was first released (and even a year or two after), I had lots of negativity towards the song. I'd think bad thoughts about it, it was a common occurrence for me to have lots of thoughts like... omg, I couldn't believe my brain had allowed my ears to listen to this toxic piece of trash that's been passed off as "music". I'd scream into a pillow, cry myself to sleep and have soul destroying nightmares about this song. I mean y'all probably think that's an exaggeration, but I kid you not, I had the most visceral creepy candy colored nightmares that I assume was haunting visions from the horrors of the music video. It was so bright, so vivid, with repetitive demonic chants of the lyrics "Min'na saikō arigatō, K-k-k-kawaii, k-k-k-kawaii". 
Anyway to cut a long story short, I realized I needed to re-evaluate my life and get over 'Hello Kitty'. I took drastic actions, I went cold turkey from everything Avril Lavigne. I went on a five month journey of spirituality and began to elevate my consciousness. I found myself, discovered who I was and ultimately found out that 'Hello Kitty' was never the issue, I had other issues in my life that I needed to address and I used that song as a kind of scapegoat. 'Hello Kitty' was never bad, It was the beginning of something great and profound. I made a complete u-turn with 'Hello Kitty', from hate to love. This song is art. It exudes confidence, charisma and a whole lot of energy. From the genius lyrics to the compelling production, we should all be proud that we were living in this moment of history to have watched and listened to this showstopper. I believe that in time (perhaps hundreds of years from now) people will consider the lyrics in the same vein as great literary works from lets say someone like Shakespeare.  |
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RBR
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Post by RBR on Mar 5, 2017 23:48:04 GMT
My issue with Hello Kitty is the production. I think it was a bit dated and not as catchy as it was supposed to be. I wasn't (and I'm still not) opposed to Avril exploring EDM or whatever dance-ish is currently playing on the radio. And the video - I think both street locations and the candy store made the video look cheap. The lyrics were very literal, it would be easy to get nice locations and really fun scenes with low budget... Also the post production, what the hell...
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eismann
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Post by eismann on Mar 6, 2017 22:01:22 GMT
I'm fine with the lyrics, I like the double-meaning and it's fun. The production ruins it for me. My ears hurt listening to it. It's so uninspiring, uncreative, cheap EDM. The chorus is so bad... I never thought Avril would deliver such bad work.
I also thought that Avril was on drugs filming the video. There is something so off about her and the video and Avril herself are so unprofessional. I feel like she was high (possibly weed or stuff like strong painkillers). No evidence though, just my idea.
I think the video is using stereotypes, which I don't like and I can see why people say it's racist. As I'm not japanese, I don't dare to say "it's not racist! LOL!", I think Japanese people have to decide that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 23:31:39 GMT
I think the video is using stereotypes, which I don't like and I can see why people say it's racist. As I'm not japanese, I don't dare to say "it's not racist! LOL!", I think Japanese people have to decide that. The ultimate stereotype here is to think that Japanese girls could be used in the video (shooted in Japan btw) for the only reason of making the video "using stereotypes". This bullshit comes from frustrated idiots outside of Japan. Obviously. An easy experiment: exchange Japanese to say Germans, and voila - "racism" has disappeared. Just a stupid video left. So by the "opinion" of those racist accusers Japanese people are somewhat "special", they couldn't be used just to shoot a stupid video as "normal" nations can. Who is racist then? Japanese people have the same right to play in stupid videos as blue eyed aryans or anyone else do. The point is the song and the video is absolutely sensless, there impossible to trace any logic (even idea) behind it and to answer why it has been made this way. I bet even the creators couldn't be precise on the topic why they made it like this. And that's hardly because they were ^hi^ remember Avril is a freaking #healthy freak, she even rejected to date Deryck until he stops to do drugs if he wants to be her wah ah ah.  No drugs involved. It's just something transcendent about the song and the authors' creativity - noone could expain. And trying to find there racism only shows how stupid all that journalism stuff can be. They just don't use their brain writing that, throwing that shit on the fan. I don't hate it and don't love it. In the past I watched the video (and somewhat enjoyed it, well, because of Avril, it's enough to be interested in), but I found myself not doing it pretty long time. I am indifferent to the song and thus not much of interest for the topic. It's just pissing off about that "racism" BS that caused me to write here. But thanks to the author by himself and the Bootylicious Batch's post, there is no need to add anything. The song is nonsensical in all respects. It's not racist, it's much less about pussy, than just about nothing, brain dead nothing. But it is a good inspiration for funny gifs and memes at least. Just look at this thread for example. Or yet - I was a witness of using a "meow part" gif similar to one given by TS, by a tech guy from a solid computer company (as means of expression of the effect some thing(R) (in question) will have on some one (related)) on twitter. |
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Anthony
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Post by Anthony on Mar 6, 2017 23:58:53 GMT
Well I just watched the music video/listened to the song in who knows how long. I'm gonna start with the positives I took from it. It's definitely a catchy song. I had to listen to another song after to get it out of my head. That can be taken as a positive or a negative, but since there aren't a lot of positives I'll put it as a positive. The other positive is that I actually think her look in the music video isn't that bad. This is coming from a guy that doesn't really like the color pink too. I also am actually a fan of the half-shaven haricut too. I don't know why but I've always kinda liked it. Now to the negatives. First obviously the lyrics are awful. I don't get offended by the lyrics or even think they're that mean though. Im not gonna go in depth because other people already have though. I also don't think the song is racist at all. For people saying it uses stereotypes, well it did do well in Japan, so that kinda means there's at least a little truth to it. Anyway, I don't think the EDM influence was very good in this song and it definitely gets annoying after a short while. I also don't know why Avril acts like an idiot during the music video. I'm sure the song was more controversial when it was first released, but I don't get to upset with the song because she has pretty much a hundred songs that are better and we are getting more. Right now it is more just funny and humorous to me. Although pretty much til the end of her career people will remember her for this song and they will talk shit on Avril fans for it. I am definitely not a fan of it but it does make for some pretty funny memes and it's fun to joke around about it and not take it seriously. Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go watch it again.  |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 7, 2017 0:02:31 GMT
Well I just watched the music video/listened to the song in who knows how long. I'm gonna start with the positives I took from it. It's definitely a catchy song. I had to listen to another song after to get it out of my head. That can be taken as a positive or a negative, but since there aren't a lot of positives I'll put it as a positive. The other positive is that I actually think her look in the music video isn't that bad. This is coming from a guy that doesn't really like the color pink too. I also am actually a fan of the half-shaven haricut too. I don't know why but I've always kinda liked it. Now to the negatives. First obviously the lyrics are awful. I don't get offended by the lyrics or even think they're that mean though. Im not gonna go in depth because other people already have though. I also don't think the song is racist at all. For people saying it uses stereotypes, well it did do well in Japan, so that kinda means there's at least a little truth to it. Anyway, I don't think the EDM influence was very good in this song and it definitely gets annoying after a short while. I also don't know why Avril acts like an idiot during the music video. I'm sure the song was more controversial when it was first released, but I don't get to upset with the song because she has pretty much a hundred songs that are better and we are getting more. Right now it is more just funny and humorous to me. Although pretty much til the end of her career people will remember her for this song and they will talk shit on Avril fans for it. I am definitely not a fan of it but it does make for some pretty funny memes and it's fun to joke around about it and not take it seriously. Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go watch it again. My takeaway from this post is that you're actually a huge fan of the song/music video and it's slowly entering your top 5 Avril songs. I respect you for admitting this, because not a lot of people are willing to do that. |
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Anthony
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Post by Anthony on Mar 7, 2017 0:09:58 GMT
Well I just watched the music video/listened to the song in who knows how long. I'm gonna start with the positives I took from it. It's definitely a catchy song. I had to listen to another song after to get it out of my head. That can be taken as a positive or a negative, but since there aren't a lot of positives I'll put it as a positive. The other positive is that I actually think her look in the music video isn't that bad. This is coming from a guy that doesn't really like the color pink too. I also am actually a fan of the half-shaven haricut too. I don't know why but I've always kinda liked it. Now to the negatives. First obviously the lyrics are awful. I don't get offended by the lyrics or even think they're that mean though. Im not gonna go in depth because other people already have though. I also don't think the song is racist at all. For people saying it uses stereotypes, well it did do well in Japan, so that kinda means there's at least a little truth to it. Anyway, I don't think the EDM influence was very good in this song and it definitely gets annoying after a short while. I also don't know why Avril acts like an idiot during the music video. I'm sure the song was more controversial when it was first released, but I don't get to upset with the song because she has pretty much a hundred songs that are better and we are getting more. Right now it is more just funny and humorous to me. Although pretty much til the end of her career people will remember her for this song and they will talk shit on Avril fans for it. I am definitely not a fan of it but it does make for some pretty funny memes and it's fun to joke around about it and not take it seriously. Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go watch it again. My takeaway from this post is that you're actually a huge fan of the song/music video and it's slowly entering your top 5 Avril songs. I respect you for admitting this, because not a lot of people are willing to do that. Not really but thanks lol |
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L.A. Reid said here is money go and make video for HK and she did it, sometimes we don't need to read so much into everything and make things so complicated 
From a fan perspective when the video came out so many people were laughing at Avril - it was a really hard time being a fan back then to be honest 
I'm glad people have finally moved on from it. 
. It's my first thread so I wasn't sure how it'd go.
No drugs involved. It's just something transcendent about the song and the authors' creativity - noone could expain. And trying to find there racism only shows how stupid all that journalism stuff can be. They just don't use their brain writing that, throwing that shit on the fan.
